We all get them: the dreaded spam complaints. No matter how tight you run your list, there is always going to be those few that trickle in. It’s just a part of email marketing that we learn to live with.
I received one this week, though, that really blew me away…
Subject: Final Notice…
Here’s what I think.
Not too long ago I distinctly remember unsubscribing from your newsletter. Now a month or two later, I find that you’re still sending me email that I don’t want to receive. But the difference is that now you’re trying to bamboozle me into logging into a forum that I’ve never logged into before in order to unsubscribe. So let me put this to you as plainly as I can. YOU remove me from your mailing list within the next 24 hours and I’ll make an effort to not report you for sending me spam. How’s that?
The next and last email I expect to get from you will be to confirm that I will never receive another email from you or any of the people you sell/share or loan your list to.
The clock is ticking….
This came as a response to an email that I sent out to all of the members of my discussion forum. It’s a simple weekly update that gives members a quick rundown of the latest posts. Most people really enjoy and appreciate the email, and send a reply saying as much. The few who have requested to be unsubscribed have done so kindly, and I dont mind removing their accounts manually. No big deal.
The first thing that stunned me was the tone of the email. It was very hostile and incredibly rude. I have never conducted business in a way that warrants such a response. In fact, I generally go out of my way to help others and to respond to all questions and comments.
And just for the record, I dont share/sell/loan my list(s) to ANYone. 
Once I got over the initial shock of the tone and wording, it dawned on me as I was reading this email over again… that there was no name, no signature of any kind, and no way to know exactly who this was. Even worse, there was no indication of which list this person ‘unsubscribed from’ - aside from the discussion forum. I have several…
Making note of the threat “the next and last email that I expect to get from you”, I decided to try a few searches just to see if I could come up with any clues myself. If I could find the username associated with their email address, then I could simply delete their account at the forum.
I started by running a few searches in my Aweber account to see which list they had been subscribed to, and to double check that they were indeed unsubscribed. I tried the email address and I tried the first half of it (before the @ symbol) and then the last half of it. Even a wildcard search. No luck - no unsubscribe record. Or any record at all for that matter.
Next I ran searches on my archive of subscribe requests that I keep in my email program. No subscribe or unsubscribe requests (or any emails at all) originating from that address. I didnt come up with anything on the Forum either - I was unable to locate a matching account.
I finally bit the bullet and sent a reply:
Hi,
Can you tell me which newsletter you unsubscribed from? I use Aweber to manage my mailing lists, and I wasn’t able to find your subscription by doing a search for —–@—– . Is this the address that you used?
I also did several searches on the discussion forum, trying to locate your username for the forum so that I could manually delete your account. I tried that same email address, as well as “—–” and “—–”. Perhaps there is a username you use regularly that I could try in my searches?
I will need to find your username in order to remove your account.
I’m at a loss as to what to do, unless you can provide more information. I am not the type to spam or ‘bamboozle’ anyone at all. My newsletters all require double opt-in confirmation, and the only way to receive an email for forum updates is to register as a member of the discussion forum.
I feel badly that you have gotten a negative impression of me. I am certain this is just a misunderstanding and can be easily resolved. Any information at all that you can provide would be helpful in my helping you.
I will keep an eye out for your email and address this right away.
Thank you,
Lynn Terry
I really dont take this sort of thing lightly. The last thing I need is for my sites to be taken offline over a simple misunderstanding. And unfortunately, when it comes to spam complaints, you are guilty until proven innocent - and proving yourself innocent is nearly impossible. Especially when you have no information to work with.
I received a response several hours later:
Lynn,
I just found your response in my spam folder and since I see that you’re trying to make a concerted effort to satisfy my request to be romoved from your list, I’ll take the time to assist you in removing me from your forum. If as you say my name is no longer on your Aweber account, I will accept that I won’t be getting any more mailings from there. I don’t have any idea what user name may have been used to add me to your forum, but since I see that you’re using phpBB, I’ll explain how you can remove me from it…
Log into your admin panel in phpBB
Click on “Management” link (under “User Admin” at the bottom left of the screen)
You will be presented with a search box with a button labelled “Lookup User” to the right of it. Enter my email into the search box and click on the “Lookup User” button You will be taken to the profile registered under my email address When you scroll to the very bottom of the page, you will find a small check box which will allow you to “Delete User” Check the box and submit - You’re done:-)
Thank you
First of all, they didnt answer ANY of my questions 
. Second, there were some interesting assumptions made. Not finding the email address in my Aweber account means I have NO record of that person subscribing OR unsubscribing. Which leaves me with the concern that this person may have been signed up under another email address altogether.
Also, membership at the forum - while it is free - requires email verification in order to complete the registration. So someone couldnt have just added this person to my forum using their address without their consent.
I’m at a loss here. I already mentioned (in my email response) that I tried performing the search that was suggested. It’s as if they didnt even read my email at all. I’m very hesitant to continue going back and forth via email with someone who has already threatened to file a complaint. One that could undo years of my work…
Am I overlooking something simple? Any and all suggestions for handling this situation are welcomed…
Tags: email marketing, spam complaints
24 responses so far ↓
Jennifer // May 25, 2006 at 9:11 am
Hi Lynn,
I firmly believe that the publisher/subscriber relationship is a two-way street and that this person, rather than making it easy for you to make him happy, seems to be making it more difficult with every request.
I would try what he or she suggested in PHPBB, but beyond that, I would email him or her and say something to this effect:
“I understand that there seems to be a miscommunication here, but all of the systems that handle this sort of thing are automated and only respond to specific requests like a specific email, a specific name, etc.. If you could double-check that the email you are writing your removal request from is the one where you are receiving the unwanted emails, and that you don’t have any sort of other email address forwarding to that account, I would appreciate it. As I mentioned, somewhere along the line, an email verification was sent out and positively responded to in order for you to be added to one of my lists. I need you to tell me which list you are a subscriber of, and perhaps forward me a copy of one of the emails with all of the header information so I can do what I need to do on my end to get this resolved.”
I use Aweber and have never had a problem with people being subscribed or unsubscribed without their knowledge, so clearly there is some lack of information on his or her part….they need to answer your specific questions if they want to get the result they desire. The tone of the initial email tells me that they have either way too much time on their hands, or they really need to look at what gets them upset during the day!
Good luck Lynn! I know you’ll take care of it the right way!
Jennifer
Grokodile // May 25, 2006 at 10:36 am
Hmm, strange.
If you haven’t, go through the actual steps they suggested (just so you can honestly say you did) then write back again and give them the email for this thread.
I do understand the anguish of being on the receiving end of a ton of spam as I’m sure most people do. However, that being said, in this day and age I don’t think having someone issue a “complaint” is all that dire — assuming they actually have the wherewithal to put together a coherent complaint.
Alice Seba // May 25, 2006 at 11:08 am
That’s the tough thing about phbb. I have a mod that lets me look up email addresses (instead of just usernames), but as you know, that doesn’t always work.
It would be cool if there was a mod or hack that would allow a 1 click unsubscribe, even just from the mailings. I can’t remember which forum script it is, but there’s at least one that manages the forum mailing list separately from the actually forum membership.
Maybe something like that already exists for phbb. If so, someone please speak up!
Teli Adlam // May 25, 2006 at 11:33 am
Wow Lynn, I am astonished. The tone of the e-mail was unnecessary and it normally takes me three e-mails before I even consider such a tone with a company. By that point, I would just forward the e-mail back to the person sending it.
Sounds like some customer service responses to me…but, moving along, he probably only scanned your e-mail and assumed you simply didn’t understand how to look up his information and didn’t read that you had looked up his information with no results.
Your response was incredibly professional, consider sending him another e-mail response explaining in very direct words that his e-mail address does not exist in your database and ask if there’s another e-mail address he used to sign up. Also, request that he provide his first/last name that he may have signed up with. Keep the response around two-three sentences which should be very easy for him to read instead of scan.
As for proving your case, honestly, you have all the proof you need from your communication above. Luckily I’ve not received a legitimate spam complaint, however, when I had an unsecured script being exploited for spam, my host was very considerate - maybe yours will be too?
And aside, he could easily login to his user account and remove the check mark next to “receive messages from administration”, that way he’d be able to remain a member of the forum and not receive any additional messages from you.
Hope this gets resolved pleasantly, Lynn. You’re one of the few people I know who run a clean and excellent newsletter.
~ Teli
Robert Nelson // May 25, 2006 at 2:32 pm
I too hope for a pleasant resolution. Everybody gets junk mail, everybody gets “Spam”.It is very dissapointing that in reality you are guilty till proven innocent. It would be nice if by using a double opt-in system that could be certified or otherwise shown to be in place you are “off the hook” and it then becomes the responibilty of the complainant to establish that they have been somehow “spammed”.
Lynn Terry // May 25, 2006 at 5:56 pm
You wouldnt believe the latest email I received from this person. I bit the bullet and sent a reply last night with another request for more information and an explanation of the details once again. Their reply was very condescending, and I was all but called a liar. Unbelievable. I am exhausted with it at this point.
I do have a few things to research and try this evening in my last effort to resolve this situation - so I’ll keep you posted on that and come back to reply to your comments & suggestions in more detail in just a bit.
I should say too, that I dont normally let things like this get to me. I had surgery on Tuesday, which I’ve been quiet about as I preferred to keep it private. No worries - I am getting lots of rest and the kids are taking great care of me
. At any rate, the timing couldnt be worse for someone to be ‘jerking my chain’ and I’m really not up for the hoops they seem to want to make me jump through.
I dont think the approach or the tone are normal in any circumstances, though. If you dont like something, you unsubscribe. If you cant remember your own username, you dont blame someone else for that. If you feel like there’s a misunderstanding or a problem, you set out to resolve it appropriately. There’s no call for making this a personal vendetta in my opinion. Something just isnt right about that…
But I intend to put an end to this drama before the end of the day. Then I am off to get some rest
. Like I said, I’ll keep you posted.
Thanks,
Lynn
Lynn Terry // May 25, 2006 at 7:07 pm
I just found them on my forum, thanks to a solution posted by Kirk. I had to go into my PHPMYADMIN panel through my hosting server and do a search query on the SQL. It gave me the username
They joined the forum less than two months ago (April 3, 2006) and havent made any posts. I deleted the account, of course.
With the new information I did some fresh searches in my Aweber account… but still never found any indication that this same person had subscribed to any of my newsletters. I’m beginning to think that was a bluff considering the detailed insults about my newsletter in this latest email I received… yet they couldnt even remember which newsletter it was.
Or maybe they just have a selective memory
In the end I guess you could assume this was just someone taking their bad day out on me. Glad it’s resolved.
-Lynn
Ellen C Braun // May 25, 2006 at 7:56 pm
Hey, I’m glad it’s resolved, too!
Can 1 spam complaint truly undo years of work? That’s scary!!
Lynn Terry // May 25, 2006 at 8:02 pm
It depends on who they submit their complaint to, but yes the threat is there. It’s unfortunate.
Kirk // May 25, 2006 at 10:37 pm
I’m glad you found them - good riddance!
I remember the first year I started selling my guitar course - no matter how many testimonials I got or letters praising the course, I just seemed to remember the people who wanted a refund - something less 1%, but it just irked the s**t out of me. I never gave anybody a hassle and was glad to refund the money, but I really took it personally.
I felt I was being a little too sensitive until the topic came up one day on one of Marlon Sanders’ Gold Club conference calls. He told us he gets so upset about refunds, that he has an assistant handle them so he won’t have to look at them (except for defective product issues of course)
When he was still handling everything himself, he told us a story about speaking at a mkt’g conference where he was approached by an attendee during a break that was pitching him a joint venture. After the pitch, the guy mentioned he had driven to the conference from somewhere nearby - to which Marlon said, “Wait a minute, your John Smith from Anytown - you bought my Amazing Formula course and then asked for a refund!”
The joint venture didn’t get to far after that… Even years later, Marlon still can’t get those refund people out of his head. Man, I would have given a million bucks to see the look on that guy’s face…classic!
Paul Short // May 26, 2006 at 5:11 am
“The clock is ticking….”
I think I know who this person is.
Paul Short // May 26, 2006 at 5:14 am
BTW, glad to see you have this issue resolved Lynn.
Lynn Terry // May 26, 2006 at 6:58 am
Well I hope you dont know them too personally
or at least I hope if you do they dont treat you in the same manner!
Thank you, both
Kirk - I had a good laugh with that story. I can just imagine the look on that guys face! haha! The everyday unsubscribes and refunds and such dont really bother me so much - I consider them a part of doing business online. Everybody’s going to have them.
It’s the threats and insults that are out of place, and that upset me. Fortunately incidents like this are rare. Hopefully I wont have any more run-ins with this particular person. That wouldnt hurt my feelings a bit.
-Lynn
Robert // May 26, 2006 at 12:54 pm
Just a suggestion, but it should be worthwhile to make the rest of the story a post on your Marketing Blog
Teli Adlam // May 26, 2006 at 3:58 pm
Glad to hear it was resolved Lynn. Seriously, good riddance. The resolution of your e-mail situation would make for a good case study blog post. You could possibly spare someone else the same headaches too.
Kirk, I would have paid good money to see that guy’s face. I don’t receive that many refund requests, but the one I remember is where the guy actually e-mailed me after receiving his refund to request his login details because he could no longer see the private entries on the blog. (Where’s the roll eyes smiley when you need it?)
And, Lynn, please make sure you’re taking extra good care of yourself too…I didn’t skim the “recent surgery” part of your comment.
~ Teli
Lynn Terry // May 26, 2006 at 4:21 pm
I am Teli, thank you
And I’m getting spoiled to the bedside service hehe
I posted the resolution above, which was a solution Kirk shared on my discussion forum recently (here). I should post about that separately, perhaps?
>> Just a suggestion, but it should be worthwhile to make the rest of the story a post on your Marketing Blog
This is my ‘marketing blog’ - unless I missed your point? If so, my apologies. When you say the rest of the story, what part do you think I should post, specifically? The only thing I really left out was the last email they sent… which was a humdinger
lol
-Lynn
Sandra // May 27, 2006 at 9:44 am
Lynn,
Glad to hear that got resolved. I think some people just look for reasons to be nasty. Your situation reminds me of Perry Marshall’s latest print newsletter (Renaissance Club). It was all about “firing customers.” I bet you’re glad to be rid of that one.
Lynn Terry // May 27, 2006 at 8:09 pm
I’ll have to look that up. And yes - very happy to have this resolved
Janis Pettit // Jun 1, 2006 at 12:43 pm
Hi Lynn,
I got a similar complaint about a week ago and an inquiry from my web host. I, like you, was shocked as I’m very careful about my lists.
I e-mailed this woman directly, since her e-mail was as nasty as the one you received.
Turns out she’d made a mistake and mistook me for a spammer she’s been trying to dump. Meanwhile I have a complaint listed in my web host file. It’s all straightened out now, but it taught me 2 things:
1) respond directly to the person who made the complaint (which you did) and
2) if I ever need to make a spam complaint myself, do so in a nice way before taking serious action. In most cases it may have been an innocent mistake.
Best,
Janis Pettit
http://www.smartrack.net
Darren // Jun 1, 2006 at 9:54 pm
I’ve had the same problem - I told them to remove their email address from the profile and they would no longer receive any “spam” - alternatively, if they provided email address, and membername I would remove them from the forum instantly.
They never replied back - but they did remove their email address.
NewslettersPlus // Jun 2, 2006 at 9:57 pm
Is this a possible scenario? I wonder if the (rude/hostile) person you’ve described might have subscribed under one email address (still unknown) on your AWeber list and all emails to that address have been set up to be forwarded automatically to the email address they ended up signing up with on the forum? (and have since forgotten about the forwarding)
They should still be able to tell what that original ‘forwarded from’ email address is (since it usually stays visible as the “TO” address in the headers) — but if the person is not very good at ‘listening’ to your very helpful, professional (earnest, authentic) emails, they may not be very good at the details of ’seeing’ the forwarded email info or ‘remembering’ …
just a thought.
glad you found the forum solution and hope your recovery has progressed at an excellent rate.
Best,
Connie
NewslettersPlus.biz
Regina // Jun 2, 2006 at 10:36 pm
What’s scary is that someone would want to actually unsubscribe from ANYthing you send!
Glad it’s resolved for you, hope you’re feeling better
srp // Jun 3, 2006 at 2:46 am
that person’s clearly a dink
they’re probably just hating on you and your success
it’s double opt-in so i say screw ‘em
Lynn Terry // Jun 3, 2006 at 1:12 pm
LOL Regina!
And thank you both - I have a couple more weeks of recovery, but it’s going smooth so far 
I havent heard back from this person since the situation was resolved, which I take as a good thing. It turned out they just didnt remember their own username - the email address was actually the same one, but it’s not easy to search by that. And considering they had made no posts since registering, there wasnt much to search on, period.
-Lynn
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