My nightmare experience with iDevAffiliate + vBulletin & 3 things we are ALL responsible for
For the past year I’ve had a private affiliate program running, which allows my Elite Members to refer new members to my Private Brainstorming Group. My group meets in an online community, using the vBulletin forum software.
I chose iDevAffiliate to manage my affiliate program, because it integrates with vBulletin. Or so I was lead to believe, after finding the vBulletin and iDevAffiliate Integration thread on the “official vBulletin modifications site”. So I purchased vBulletin, purchased iDevAffiliate, and hired a programmer to install the mod.
Often we assume the code will just work, especially if you don’t know code yourself and have no way to analyze or validate it. Obviously you do your homework and research the web for reviews or discussions. But what else can you do, right?
After a full year of running my private affiliate program, and over $10,000 worth of commission tracking, I discovered that this particular set-up was not working properly at all. It wasn’t until the 2nd quarter that the discrepancies started to show up, due to the nature of the tracking issue.
It became nothing short of a support nightmare.
I’ll spare you the geeky technical details, and just say that I lost thousands of dollars in overpaid commissions. Not to mention countless hours on support & troubleshooting between both my assistant and myself.
For the past 2 months I’ve been working nonstop at unraveling the mess, tracking down every single un-tracked commission, and making sure those commissions were paid. Unfortunately the mod did not pass the referring member data to iDev, so every single “order number” had to be assigned to an actual member in order to do this. Which was painful, to say the least. I used time stamps down to the second to make the associations, and created a detailed spreadsheet of affiliate and member activity. NOT ideal, and NOT the best use of my time, obviously.
After that I closed the affiliate program with a final reconciliation payment – and a heavy sigh. As a full-time affiliate marketer myself, it pained me to do it. I know firsthand how frustrating that is as an affiliate. But the system simply wasn’t working, and there was no way to repair it as-is.
I had no choice but to shut it down, rather than let the inaccuracies continue.
I would have never caught the issue if a few affiliates hadn’t noticed the discrepancies and inquired about them (thank you for that!). As an affiliate myself, I keep track of commissions owed and commissions paid too – which is something everyone should do. Never just assume a system is working.
I chose the set-up I did for a reason. There are other options, and I am looking into them as we speak. But that’s not what I wanted to address in this particular post…
What really blows my mind is that there are NO complaints or questions about this vBulletin Modification. And MY reply to the mod thread, where I mentioned the issues I was having and asked if others were experiencing the same… has not seen a single response in almost a week.
This means there are others out there running the Mod, that have no idea it’s not working properly. Honestly, the way it’s set up, there’s no way for them to know – unless someone does a painstakingly detailed audit (like I did), or unless someone speaks up about it. Like I am now.
I am sharing this with you for 3 reasons
To remind you to:
1. Keep track of your affiliate commissions & payments.
2. Test & analyze your installations to make sure they work properly.
3. Report things that do or do not work so that others will know.
I also hope that others who are using or considering this particular ‘mod’ will find this review and find it helpful in making their own decisions.
A few points before I wrap this up…
vBulletin hosts the modification in question, but it is marked as “not supported”. It is also not supported by iDevAffiliate. Obvious note: this leaves users out in the cold for any kind of help or technical support. Something I will definitely keep in mind with any future mods or plugins or updates of any kind.
Speaking of, iDevAffiliate went out of their way to assist me while I was dealing with this situation. The developer himself emailed back and forth with me, and even called me on the phone to discuss the issue and the options.
iDevAffiliate was nothing short of amazing on their end, and they have top notch software for managing an affiliate program. I highly recommend them for anyone looking to host an affiliate program: iDevAffiliate.
vBulletin is also an exceptional product, which I am very happy with.
I will continue to use iDev as it works across multiple domains and for a variety of product types. I plan to get it back up & running for my hundreds of affiliates in the 4th quarter, with other products & structures. Of course, it will remain a private members-only program. I have no desire to run a public affiliate program at this point, or anytime in the near future.
While this particular set-up may not be relative to you or your business model specifically, there is definitely something to be learned here. I can boil it down to: test, track, talk. We all have a responsibility to the ever-evolving web, and to the growth and betterment of the space.
Best,
p.s. If you’re interested in joining my Private Brainstorming Group, simply register at the SSWT Forum. You can upgrade to Elite Member through the UserCP at any time to join the group and gain access to our private community.
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This nightmare you have gone through speaks volumes about your integrity, Lynn.
Follow me @lainehmann on Twitter.
Thank you, Lain. It was such a disappointment not to find a workable solution, and to have to close the program. Luckily iDev is jumping through hoops to assist. And while they can’t repair the previous setup, they may be able to custom write something that does work. They rock…
I appreciate your support and kind words. I’m still recovering from spreadsheet hell (lol) and look forward to getting back to things I enjoy doing with our group.
Follow me @lynnterry on Twitter.
Lynn,
To me this is a scary situation. I would like to know more about why there is no affiliate software that can integrate seamlessly with forum software. I am not a tech geek but it seems important to understand the basics of this problem in case I decide to run a membership type program in the future. Can you point me where to start my research??
Thanks,
Tom
Follow me @affiliatetom on Twitter.
Hi Lynn,
Have you looked into a system like 1shoppingcart? Are there special features that you need that 1shop doesn’t have? Just curious because I’m just starting and Aff program and looking for the best system. Lost of people recommend 1shop and I wanted to know your opinion.
Blessings,
Elizabeth
Follow me @ElizTobin on Twitter.
AS far as I can tell, 1SC doesn’t integrate into forum software which is ALWAYS tricky. And that is what Lynn needs … something that integrates with her forum software – V-Bulletin.
Whatever Lynn goes with will most likely need to be customized.
ONE thing we ALL know, tho, is that Lynn WILL get it done! heh heh
Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel
Follow me @corprebel on Twitter.
Hi Rick,
Thanks for the reply. I’m so new at this I don’t even know why you would need your Aff program to integrate with your forum software.
Could you explain more about this?
Thanks so much for your time.
Blessings,
Elizabeth
Follow me @ElizTobin on Twitter.
Hi Elizabeth!
Mainly it’s because Lynn runs her paid Elite Mastermind forum thru her regular SSWT forum. So she needs to integrate the affiliate software with her forum software which is v-bulletin.
Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel
Follow me @corprebel on Twitter.
Thanks for trying Rick, but I still think I’m missing something. The Aff software tracks sales, so wouldn’t you just need the Aff program to integrate with your payment software. Do people pay through her forum?
Or is it that the unique Aff Link that tracks each Aff’s referrals sends the referrals to the forum and 1sc can’t generate that kind of Aff link?
Follow me @ElizTobin on Twitter.
You mentioned:
“Or is it that the unique Aff Link that tracks each Aff’s referrals sends the referrals to the forum and 1sc can’t generate that kind of Aff link?”
That’s probably closer to it. I wish I learned more about programming! LOL
Most forum software needs what are called mods that allow certain aff software, payment processors to work within the forum. These mods are specific to a particular software.
It’s like 1SC isn’t compatible with “all” payment processors either. It’ll only “integrate” with certain payment processors.
For example, I don’t see anywhere on the 1SC site that shows it being able to integrate with forum software without total custom programming involved.
I’m sure Lynn will eventually get something worked out.
Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel
Follow me @corprebel on Twitter.
Lynn, I’m sorry you had to go through that. That must have been awful. You may also want to look into payspree. I know they have a recurring billing mode. I don’t know what else you need. I’m glad you got everything sorted out.
Follow me @deannatroupe on Twitter.
Hi Lynn,
Frankly, I’m surprised half of the software in the world works at all! It’s really quite complicated and all of the interdependencies can drive you batty!
You’re truly an ethical person (you knew this) by doing what you did to rectify the situation. Very cool!
Follow me @IMMuscle on Twitter.
Lynn, Thank you for shedding light on this situation. It’s not easy to expose our own flops to the world. I’m curious to know how you decided to go with IDevAffiliate as opposed to a 3rd party solution like 1shoppingcart or Ultracart? I’ve been looking for similar solutions and would appreciate knowing your criteria and which one’s you considered. Thanks!
Follow me @jayne_burch on Twitter.
Ouch. I feel your pain. I love that, “test, track, talk” …the three Ts of Lynn T
Follow me @OliverOlsen_ on Twitter.
So let me see if I understand this: you opened an affiliate program for a membership site, got lots of members, then stopped paying the affiliates the recurring payments for the members they brought you. Integrity?
Sheesh …
Integrity? She’s shown more than you seem to have considering your lame comment. Did you even read her post above? Plus, do you even have any experience running a membership site with an affiliate program (or any affiliate program, for that matter)? Were you even a member of her Elite MasterMind Group?
If not, then you obviously can’t really understand the situation. I can’t see what else she could have done.
Lynn’s done the best one could expect under the circumstance and she’s been TOTALLY transparent with us affiliates while this went down. The affiliate program is a ‘closed’ program. You have to be a member to even promote it.
She didn’t try to get back overpayments that went out to many affiliates and she managed to track down and pay affiliates that didn’t get paid. Unfortunately her affiliate system software broke down. It happens.
As one of her affiliates, I certainly don’t blame her for the action she’s had to take. She has no way to determine accurately who gets what anymore. I’d do the same thing.
One question for you, tho … Would YOU have the “integrity” to post something like she did here to the WHOLE world to your own readers? Let me guess… probably not!
Wish I could say ‘sorry for the rant’ but I’m not.
Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel
Follow me @corprebel on Twitter.
Hey Rick,
Chill out! Your tone is needlessly contemptuous and flagrantly judgmental. You model the very same behavior you rant against!
Your knee jerk reaction sheds no value to the conversation. If you want us to be civil, I respectfully suggest you model being civil in your comments and replies.
Mark
Actually I’m glad Rick said it, and I think it added perfectly to the value of the conversation. Haters always think they have the right to say whatever they want without consequences, or having someone call them on it. Rick did just that, whether Lynn needed the protection or not; good for him, because the initial response certainly wasn’t civil.
Follow me @ on Twitter.
Oh the joys of running a successful business…a perfect example Lynn of the fact that it never is smooth sailing and handling it the way you did shows fantastic integrity. And it also shows not all affiliate systems are the ‘nirvana’
perfect things…even my 1sc has some glitches every now and then. It’s just part of doing business and testing allows for more of a six sigma approach. I was launching an affiliate program for one of my offline clients and found after testing with one major “pilot” affiliate – all the emails going to the spam folder – alot of good that will do for the sales funnel! So we had to change up the domain name they were using as for some reason – it didn’t play nice with one’s inbox! LOL
Test, track, talk – love that motto!
Thanks for sharing! Maria Gudelis
Follow me @mariagudelis on Twitter.
Dang, Lynn!
Who says marketing online is dull? Glad you survived the ordeal!
But ya done GOOD. THANKS!
Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel
Follow me @corprebel on Twitter.
lynn,What is scary is new people are not as versed in things like you are,,,,,,i have signed up for your letter but would like to join the elite group,,,,,,i have ben having trouble downloading dan theis seo book you suggested,,,it seems to drive my computer crazy and keep opening windows until i reboot,,,,,,any suggestions? Me and my partner are eager to get busy and setup our new site and have it working instead of being a dead site,,,,,,thanks tom cook
If I were you, I would only work with an independent programmer and not someone that works for the company that sells you the software. This is why.
I spent 12 years working as a software developer for other people before I finally had enough and quit. The biggest reason I quit was that most of my employers tried to push me into doing things I was not comfortable doing. Essentially they wanted me to represent myself as being knowledgeable of something that I was not. I am terminally honest and this never sat well with me. I was always getting into trouble with my bosses and finally one day, I just quit.
I have been self-employed for 5 years and now when someone asks me to do a job that I do not feel like I can do the absolute best on, I turn it down. It usually freaks people out when I do, because they never see people do that. But, I am obsessive about maintaining a good reputation.
Programmers are like mechanics. There are a lot of good ones, but there are also a lot of bad ones. You need to be very careful about choosing one. I would only go with someone if you know and trust someone that has worked with that person before.
I would also avoid hiring programmers from programming shops. Sure you may get their services cheaper, but you will probably pay in some other way (as you did Lynn in this scenario). Buyer has to beware and remember, you pay for what you get.
Hope that helps someone.
Lynn, the one good thing about this is that you OVERPAID commissions rather than UNDERPAYING commissions.
I had a nasty problem with 1shoppingcart that underpaid commissions and made me look like a crook. It was very disturbing. I’d rather make the mistake of overpaying than underpaying and then having your affiliate figure out that you’ve been underpaying them.
The motto in my office is “don’t trust anyone! don’t trust me, don’t trust yourself, don’t trust a 3rd party provider. trust NO ONE. Check, check, check and double check stuff.”
David
Follow me @David_Frey on Twitter.
Lynn,
Sorry to hear about this ‘nightmare’… I’ve experienced similar situations in the past and can totally relate. I’d LOVE to know if the fine folks at vbulletin do come up with a working solution for you… as I’m headed the vbulletin route too.
Follow me @GenePimentel on Twitter.
Lynn,
Those of us who know you, know full well that you did all you could to make it right. We will also be right there when you get it all straightened out to sign up to be your affiliates again.
You have more integrity in your pinky than a lot of other marketers I came into contact with before meeting you have in their whole body.
Thanks for all you do, for your forum members, elite members and your readers. Most of us truly appreciate it and you!
Follow me @MaryB2010 on Twitter.
Lynn,
I have a client who wanted to run her affiliate program in house, using either iDevAffiliate or Post Affiliate Pro. Neither piece of software allowed us to do what needed to be done so we decided to go with ShareASale.
If your affiliate program generates enough to cover ShareASale fees, I would go with them.
Sorry to hear about your nightmare.
Follow me @VladZablotskyy on Twitter.
Hey Lynn,
You praise both pieces of software as stand-alone products. Surely your nightmare was self-induced and due to you not knowing how to hire and manage the programmer who did the “mod.”
You paid price of being incompetent to manage the project by mishiring right at the start. Your headline should not feature the names of the software and by indirection have the reader infer there is any “nightmare” with either piece of software.
You are 100% responsible for this outcome. Perhaps the headline should have read “Lynn Terry takes responsibility for her own software integration nightmare.” But then the article would need to be rewritten to remove your victimhood in all this.
You goofed. That’s all. Let’s get rid of the needless drama and pointless suffering.
Kathy
Hi Kathy. The title serves a purpose. My intention is that others researching the mod offered will easily find this post and look for another solution. I had no way of knowing there would be issues with the mod, and others won’t either unless someone speaks up. So I did.
Follow me @lynnterry on Twitter.
I beg to differ Kathy, why is it Lynn responsibility and not either the programmer &/or the software developer’s responsibility to have not released a version till they where reasonably sure that 99.9% of the time that it would and does work
Follow me @nar321 on Twitter.
Hey Lynn – just dropping in to say I love ya! You are such an amazing person and an incredible, warm-hearted, real marketer.
#thatisall
Follow me @lisamariemary on Twitter.
Hello Lynn…I just discovered you yesterday via the Copywriting 101 that is going on. 1. I enjoyed your piece with the ladies and definitely picked up some great tips to help me and my growth!. 2. This is the first blog post I have read of yours and I am sooo impressed that you took the stance that you did. It is well written and I hope it achieves your goal for others to know the issues that occurred with the software and they stumble upon your review. I admire your honesty and integrity by sharing with those that relied on you to receive payments what was going on. It’s rare to find such honesty and integrity in people these days. I also want to commend Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel for having your back as he apparently does…I JUST LOVE that…It truly shows the power of having the right people in your corner and you obviously surround your self with that. I look forward to learning and reading more of your post and again…THANK YOU for revealing who you are!
Follow me @virtuallyassist on Twitter.
Once again Lynn steps up and assumes full responsibility for a problem.
Thank you Lynn and looking forward to the new and improved Elite affiliate program coming soon.
Follow me @nar321 on Twitter.
As usual Lynn you show your authenticity in all you do. And your concern for others by posting this information so we don’t have to experience the same challenge.
Thanks for all you do Lynn. You rock!
Follow me @kathleengage on Twitter.
Oh Lynn I feel your pain on this one. For years we used Member Speed to run our membership sites and it has a built in affiliate program. Every time they released an upgrade to correct errors it introduced new errors, quite often to the affiliate module.
Like you, we found we had overpaid our affiliates by thousands of dollars. Ouch. I also spent thousands of dollars with my tech team communicating with the developers just to convince them there WAS a problem. They never believed us. Then, like you we found the worst nightmare. The software hadn’t been calculating commissions for our affiliates for months since the last upgrade.
Again, thousands of dollars spent with my team manually calculating every single affiliate referral and making sure our affiliates were paid. I couldn’t sleep at night thinking I may have ripped people off after all their hard work referring me.
Like you, very little response in the forums. It felt very lonely except for the gratitude from our affiliates for being open.
Eventually we started all over again. It was worth getting rid of the software.
So we settled for WordPress, wishlist and 1shoppingcart. They work really well together and life is far less stressful. Good on you Lynn for making the tough decision to close the affiliate program when you know it isn’t working. It is far more respectful to your affiliates than soldiering on. And also, good call on holding us all accountable for sharing info on the problems we encounter.
Follow me @janetbeckers on Twitter.
Hi Lynn,
I purchased a forum about a year and a half ago and grew it from 10,000 members to about 38,000 withing a year. When I purchased the forum (vbulletin), one of the main things I wanted to do was run an affiliate program. After looking at a few, I decided on Idevaffiliate. However, I soon realized there was no effective way to link the two. At least, none that I found.
So this is what I decided to do. I used Amember to handle my forum registrations and then linked idevaffiliate to amember. This worked out very well in a number of ways. idevaffiliate provides resources for linking to to amember and it is pretty well-supported.
I was also able to integrate aweber with amember, which turned out to be VERY useful. Adding amember into the mix allows you to do so much more. I was able to provide training resources and a membership site around my forum because of the amember integration. This might be something for you to consider.
Follow me @TheFreebieGuy on Twitter.
Thanks for speaking out. There’s really something fishy about it, why wouldn’t they respond and why aren’t there any forum or something like that. Thanks to those people who brought this to your attention. What I learned is to not be afraid to speak out because by speaking out you can help others as well as help improve the situation.
Follow me @andrewrondeau on Twitter.
I’ve set up many recurring subscription products that have forums. In the early years one of the sites I managed used iDev too which worked very well until one upgrade and I *know* exactly what you are talking about there. We had to manually reconcile everything for months. I’m not knocking iDev. I think it works and it’s come a looongg way since we used it.
But from a technical viewpoint, I’d much rather use something that is integrated. My thinking (from a distance of course), the problem is because the payment is processing handled via vBulletin. Most of the setups we’ve worked, the payments are handled via a shopping cart with integrated affiliate program and it works out well 99.9% of the time.
Follow me @techbased on Twitter.
Wow, it’s really unfortunate that this happened to you. But at the same time, now you also know that you can run a successful affiliate program (as long as the software works.) Are you going to start it back up once you find a more fitting solution?
Try Omnistar Affiliate for your affiliate software, it helped me to increase sales by about 10%