Input sought on possible goldmine keyword phrase I found...

[carlos123]

Hi everyone,

I posted this on another forum that some of you undoubtedly belong to but I wanted to get input on this here too.

I have been researching keywords with a view to creating a site to capture search engine traffic.

All well and good but I am wondering if someone can give me input to give me some reassurance that I am on the right track with what appears to be a keyword phrase goldmine.

I do know a fair bit about SEO related topics (mainly that it's mostly hype LOL) but I can certainly learn more.

While I won't give away the goldmine that I seem to have found here is the gist of it (assuming I did indeed find a goldmine keyword phrase and am not just dreaming LOL).

The keyword phrase is like "air mattress deals" or some such. This keyword phrase is searched for about 50,000 per month through Google (according to Google's keyword tool). The number of sites that are serving this keyword phrase is 209,000 (again in Google).

Now the thing is that the top ten sites that show up of those 209,000 seem to be easily beatable. What I mean is that all they have on their pages is a list of items and prices and little in the way of real content.

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that if I (assume I am selling air mattresses) build a site that contains advice on air mattresses. What they are, how to pick a good one, how to get deals on them, whatever...that my site will outrank these other sites that do little more than just list prices and model names.

In other words my site will have content. Valuable content. Not just a bunch of prices and model numbers with little blurps under the model names.

Does this sound like a winning strategy to beat those in the top spot for this phrase? I mean to build a content site on air mattresses that has a lot more indexable content than the sites that are presently at the top have?

What do you all think? Am I on the right track?

Any and all input would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Carlos

[Lynn Terry]

Hi Carlos,

Analyze their backlinks. Go to each result in the top 10, take the exact URL of each page that ranks on that first page, and look at how many backlinks there are pointing to that page. THAT will tell you what it will take to outrank them.

To analyze the backlinks, go to yahoo.com, and type the link: command in the search bar.

Like this: "link:http://www.clicknewz.com" - without quotes, and using the full URL of the top ranking page.

You have to have more backlinks, or better backlinks, to beat them in the SERPs. Period.

[Lynn Terry]

p.s. I once got a BLANK PAGE ranked #1 in Google.

[carlos123]

That's impressive Lynn!

And downright funny LOL.

Carlos

[carlos123]

What you said about backlinks may kill this keyword phrase Lynn.

Each of the top 3 has over 500 inbound links. There is no way I will come even close there.

The only unusual thing is that most of the backlinks are not directly related to the search phrase I spoke about in my OP.

The sites in question have listings of deals for all kinds of things and not just for what I am targetting. The backlinks reported by Yahoo are for backlinks to all manner of items for sale at the site and not just for what I am targetting.

Any chance that I could still compete here?

Carlos

[carlos123]

I don't understand something.

Take the phrase "web developers copyright issues".

I rank at position 19 with only 2 inbound links (both mine). The page is http://www.carlosgonzalezconsulting.com/copyright-issues

Sitepoint wrote an article on this issue that has 28 inbound links but they are ranked at 30 on the same search results page. Here's their page: http://www.sitepoint.com/article/legal-issues-developers/

The Sitepoint site has inbound links from outside it's own domain though most are internal pages linking to it's own pages just like my two inbound links are.

If inbound links are so important how is it that my page ranks that much higher than Sitepoints with 1/10th the inbound links than Sitepoint (a much bigger and more respected site than me)??

My site has zero inbound links from outside of my own domain. It's not SEO optimized at all in any way shape or form at least intentionally by me (though unintentionally I might have done some things that were SEO good).

Any insight on this? I mean how can my site rank higher than the Sitepoint page on the same essential subject?

I am not ignoring what anyone has said to me here. I just don't understand and am trying to wrap my head around this better.

Carlos

[Lynn Terry]

It has to do with two things: The number of links, and the Link Reputation. When analyzing backlinks you want to look at each link and see if it a) comes from a related page (relevance factor) and b) uses your keyword phrase as the anchor text for the link.

All links are not created equal.

Sitepoint is most likely optimizing that page for a different keyword phrase. Check the backlinks pointing to their page and see what anchor text most of those links are using.

[carlos123]

Hi Lynn,

Thanks again for your input Lynn. Please don't feel a need to respond to every one of my posts Lynn, I certainly don't expect it but, as usual if you have any further input I am all ears.

I am a bit stubborn sometimes but if something that is told me makes sense and is reasonable I eventually come around once I have had a chance to mull it over some.

Regarding what you said Lynn....



The number of links, and the Link Reputation.


I have 2 inbound links on the page indicated, both those links are just from my internal navigation, and I have no reputation to speak of. So we can discount my site entirely in regard to the number of inbound links and reputation. Sitepoint beats me by a mile in both categories.

Regarding the SitePoint site you said...



Check the backlinks pointing to their page and see what anchor text most of those links are using.


The Sitepoint page (which ranks at position 30 compared to mine at 19 for the keyword phrase in question) has the following backlinks that are NOT internal from it's own domain.

In other words of the 28 inbound links, 22 are internal and probably don't count for much. Here are the six that are left. I highlighted what I believe is the anchor text (if I am not mistaken) for easier reference.



1. Fake User Profiles: Free Speech or Defamation? [Legal Issues]
text/html http://www.pheedo.com/click.phdo?i=54a7968cac72ab494b9ae18d76e6ad48 - 49k - cache

2. General Public License, Explained [Legal Issues]
text/html http://www.webmasterbase.com/article.php/415 - 40k - cache

3. Who Owns the Copyright to Your Website? [Legal Issues]
text/html http://www.ecommercebase.com/article/504 - 42k - cache

4. John Wang - Part 3
text/html http://www.johntwang.com/page/3/ - 66k - cache

5. Getting rights to website source code - Web Development
text/html http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/1259938.html - 52k - cache

6. [thelist] Copyright Issues
text/html http://lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20040614/160290.html - 3k


I am a bit confused however as to the anchor text used in the above links. The anchor text of link #4 for example at the actual page is way different than the "John Wang - Part 3" that shows up here.

This all leaves me scratching my head as to why my page ranks more highly than Sitepoint's for the same keyword phrase that both pages seem to be focused on.

Only in my case I didn't do anything to even focus on this keyword phrase. I just wrote a page.

I mean if I was to make a snap judgement about why my page ranks more highly I would say that it was because of the content. I have better content. That's it. Nothing else.

The Sitepoint page has more links to authoritative pages on the subject than I do. It has more backlinks...3 times more (if you discount the internal links). The Sitepoint page is from a site that is far more respected and linked to overall than mine is.

I just don't understand why mine is ranking higher. Unless...

Content is still King with Google. Not SEO anything other than content.

Now I realize it's not quite that simple but I am just saying that off the top of my head that's the only thing that explains my higher ranking. I can't think of anything else.

Any further input or help understanding why my page ranks higher would be appreciated. I am here to learn not to neccessarily question generally accepted SEO principles. But in this case it does seem that anything having to do with backlinks doesn't matter.

Carlos

[Lynn Terry]

Anchor Text is the text that the URL is hyperlinked to.


<a href="http://www.selfstartersweeklytips.com">This is anchor text</a>

What you are looking at above is the Title tag of the page that is linking to sitepoint's page. Not the anchor text. Look on each of those 6 pages for the link to sitepoint, and see HOW they link to it.

Did you use the keyword phrase in the anchor text on the internal links within your own site? If so, there's your answer.

You're overcomplicating it just a tad ;)

[Lynn Terry]

But in this case it does seem that anything having to do with backlinks doesn't matter.

- false -

See: http://www.seofaststart.com :)

[carlos123]

Thanks for the input Lynn. I kinda disappeared as I got involved in a discussion at the warriorforum on this issue.

Carlos

[Lynn Terry]

Cool - care to share the link? I'd be interested to read it as well.

[carlos123]

Absolutely Lynn. I really, really appreciate your willingness to allow posting of links to other places...even other forums which could be said to be competing with yours.

That is right swell of you and very refreshing compared to most forums I participate in. And it makes total sense to allow such links if they are relevant to a discussion and not just a spammers attempt to get attention to their web site.

Here's the link....

http://www.warriorforum.com/adsense-ppc-seo-discussion-forum/122147-importance-backlinks-highly-overrated.html

Please don't take anything I said there as an indication that I was ignoring what you said to me here Lynn. I question everything as a natural part of my personality no matter who says it and I like to get input from as many people as might be knowledgeable on something as I can. I still don't have SEO all figured out. Maybe I never will.

I did read Dan Thies stuff again by the way. It's real good and a valuable resource but in the middle he starts to get a bit technical and dry and it makes for some laborious reading a bit in some parts. So I didn't read all the way through it this time around.

Having discussed all this and read various SEO resources again I think I will...

1. Write more quality content for my site and flesh out a series of lessons (an e-class if you will) on how to quickly create web sites without even using Wordpress.

2. Make sure I start using the title tag and giving my pages actual titles in the code (in addition to giving them a title for appearances sake).

3. Focus a page more on the phrases that are bringing me visitors if I can do so without altering the gist of what a page says. People are starting to find my site through various phrases that I have not thought about.

4. Start using H1,H2,H3 tags instead of just P's, and DIV's to line up more with what a search engine might read as being important on a page.

5. Start looking for blogs that actually talk about web development issues and start posting comments on those blogs and/or find blogs that might have readers that might need web development work done and start posting there. Both to get some higher quality inbound links and to assertively generate some targetted traffic without waiting on the search engines.

6. Flesh out my joint venture idea of making e-lessons avaiable for an internet marketer to include freely in their newsletters and such as a way of getting more traffic to my site. Again...without waiting on the search engines.

I think the above steps is what I am going to focus on as my SEO strategy.

Carlos

[Lynn Terry]

It's a moot point. You've wasted a lot of time that you could have spent finishing SEO Fast Start and actually optimizing your site for keyword phrases that get searched.

The phrase "web development copyright issues" gets zero searches.

That is why it is easy for you to get a top 10 ranking.

You mentioned (in the WF thread) that you outrank this page for that same phrase: http://www.infotoday.com/cilmag/jun01/kennedy.htm

That page is not optimized for the phrase you referred to, for starters.

Your page has part of the search term in the title tag. And you linked to it using that anchor text.

Go to Yahoo Site Explorer and see if ANY of their inbound links use even part of that 4-word phrase as the anchor text:

http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infotoday.com%2Fcilmag%2 Fjun01%2Fkennedy.htm&bwm=i&bwmo=d

There's your answer.

SEO is simple. Write the page. Do your basic on-page optimization for a relevant keyword phrase that gets searched. Get inbound links (internal and inbound) that use that phrase as the anchor text for the hyperlink. Period.

If I have 100 links that point to my page that all say "click here". And you have 5 links that all say "keyword phrase" - your page would outrank mine.

[carlos123]

Even if I have spent a bit of time on these SEO issues and a forum discussion Lynn...I don't consider it a waste of time. Not at all.

I mean even if it has all come back to my need to apply the basics of SEO that you talk of isn't that the way we all learn sometimes? Where we beat around the bush and try or discuss all kinds of things that don't work until we come around to discovering or re-discovering what does?

What you say does make sense Lynn and I appreciate your willingness to share it with me.

My biggest problem right now is not trying to determine what works or does not work SEO wise. It's having to determine what to focus on with the limited time I have available in my life.

I would like to start imitating the blueprint of a John at warriorforum who talked openly about how he makes $300 per day from Adsense sites he puts up. I am involved in a major project for a client of mine. I am involved in church related activities. I would like to ad more content to my web site. I would like to participate more in blogs related to my area of expertise. I would like to flesh out the joint venture idea that some of us discussed on one of threads here. I got a thousand and one things going on or good things I could be doing but haven't started doing yet and find myself unable to do it all as much as I would like to.

That's my biggest problem Lynn. Determining what would be best to focus on doing and then finding the time to do it.

And of course all along I have to continue making real money in the here and now to put food on the table.

It's a bit overwhelming sometimes.

Carlos

[Lynn Terry]

It is a bit overwhelming. And I understand your lack of time. I'm a single mother of two teenagers with a life - and a home to manage. That's the reason I try to help people avoid time-sucks like this and get on the fast path to doing things correctly and easily.

[carlos123]

Thanks very much for your valuable input Ray. Much, much appreciated.

I was so busy today that I didn't hardly have a chance to get back to this thread until now.

I did some additional keyword research and decided against the "goldmine" phrase I initially found. I went with another one that was less competitive though still quite tough to rank for.

My client is just in a field that is super competitive.

We'll see how he does in the long run.

Carlos