Do you need lots of content for good seo?

[ChuckMorgan]

I recently came across this article about the merits of lots of content for good seo, and it posed an interesting flip side to the story.
What are your thoughts or experiences?
http://www.searchenginejournal.com/seo-mythbusters-content/12810/

Thanks
Chuck Morgan
http://www.virtualwebvideo.com

[Lynn Terry]

Great article, and great topic!

Here's the answer...

Web pages do not need "constantly updated content" or "fresh content" to rank well. I have pages that I put online years ago that still rank #1 for their keyword phrase.

How often you update your web pages or your website as a whole, determines how frequently the major search engines will "spider" your website. If you update daily, they'll spider daily. If you update very little, they will spider you much less frequently.

The benefit to updating/adding to your website is to get spidered more frequently, so that when you do add new pages or make changes to existing pages - those changes/additions get picked up VERY quickly in the major search engines.

In addition, your content needs to stand on it's own two feet. Meaning if you strip out Adsense, affiliate recommendations/banners, and any other form of monetization... does your content still add value to the visitor? See:

http://www.clicknewz.com/1854/thin-affiliate-sites/

I have some evergreen sites where the content is great, the same today as it was 5 years ago when I put it online. There's no reason to update or change that. That said, I do get fresh links to those pages now and then, which helps it to maintain its top rankings.

[carlos123]

It's surprising how litte content sometimes makes it into the top ten.

I recently read a newsletter that talked of a site named TipDrop. And I checked out what they were saying about it.

I am not yet sure how they are doing it exactly but a fair number of TipDrop pages are showing up in top ten rankings on Google.

It's one of those sites like Hubbpages, EZine, and others that Google really seems to like. Such that if one creates a page at any of these sites they will tend to get ranked faster than creating it as a stand alone page under my own domain type of thing.

So definitely...it seems absolutely without a doubt clear that having a ton of content is not necessary. If TipDrop rankings are any indication.

Carlos

[Lynn Terry]

With some of those public content properties, the main site has enough authority to help the member pages. And new content tends to rank well quickly, then tank just as quickly if it doesnt get any votes or links.

[Lynn Terry]

There's no problem with having content out there on other domains & properties, strategically linking back to your own. But you do it as it makes sense for your business model, for your market, and your objectives. You don't have to go crazy with it - or believe every red headline you read.

Content is great, and inbound links are gold - but some of the suggestions out there are really overkill. That's all.

[carlos123]

Just a couple of more thoughts on how much content to have for the search engines...

Please bear in mind that I am not one to speak per se as I have never yet had a site of mine appear in the top 10 spots at Google or even on the first page of search results but I have done a lot of reading and discussing of these issues with others and here are some observations I have gleamed to date.

But bear in mind also that I have never really even bothered to focus all my efforts on getting a top ten ranking either LOL.

These days I really don't focus too much on getting search engine traffic. I mean as in making it the end all and be all of marketing myself or my services over the Internet.

I have found that the best approach for me is to initiate to put ads in strategic places around the Internet, to post meaningful comments on blogs with a link to my web site when it is allowed, to post in forums when a signature is allowed (like this one allows), to write an article or two here and there, or even for my market to make telemarketing calls to local business owners to introduce myself and my business to them.

In other words I don't wait on no search engine LOL.

Notice that none of that involves attempts to look great to search engines.

While such an emphasis is wortwhile it is not as entirely necessary as one might think. We CAN survive and do well without a top ten search engine ranking LOL. Honest.

If you think about it there is only so much room in the top ten spots for any search phrase so if top search engine placement is an absolute must for success in an internet business...well...most of us ain't gonna succeed LOL.

Having said that it seems to me that the best thing to do is to focus on developing great content for readers or visitors to our sites without undue concern for how things are going to appear to the search engines. In other words it's best to focus on providing great content to our ideal site visitor or reader (if we are blogging).

I've broken all kinds of "rules" about blogging yet have a little blog that is very successful in it's own right. It's mainly focused on Christian topics but still...I've had some pages of mine viewed by hundreds without me doing hardly anything to try and get traffic to my blog. Admittedly I have been helped by having it started it within the context of a site that Google likes a lot and a site where I had become somewhat well known but still...my point is that I didn't go out of my way to try and get noticed by search engines. Not at all.

I just don't concern myself with search engine optimization techniques. I figure they will find me out and give me a good ranking if my content truly is valuable not to them but to my site visitors and readers. And sure enough that's the way it seems to happen.

While people go here and there to and fro all over the place trying to figure out how to get good and noticed by the search engines I just happily go along writing great content for those that I want as ideal site visitors and readers.

It's really not complicated I think.

Just my additional two cents worth on this...again take it with a grain of salt since...well...I don't focus much on trying to impress the search engines :D

Carlos

[Lynn Terry]

That's all fine and good if that's how you choose to do things for your own site, but being in the field of web dev you'll definitely need to be up on the rules of basic on-page optimization for your clients.

I recommend http://www.seofaststart.com - free download by Dan Thies

SEO is super easy. And it makes me A LOT of money.

[carlos123]

That's a good point Lynn. I can certainly appreciate your experience and the knowledge you have gained from it.

In general...I still say that SEO stuff is way overhyped as the end all and be all of Internet based success.

Of course there are a lot of things that can be done to enhance search engine rankings for web sites but if a web site owner doesn't have great content...that other stuff is not going to cut it with respect to giving them great placement at least not for the long haul. On the other hand if they have great content and people start knowing they do...they will end up having a great ranking in time even if they don't follow all the latest SEO techniques.

That's just my opinion mind you but it seems to be backed up by various SEO related guru's.

Below is a link to one of the better SEO related articles I've ever read (I probably need to read it again :)). It's nuts and bolts without any of the usual hype about SEO.

Here's a quote...



As Google says on its philosophy page, "Focus on the user and all else will follow." Google wants webmasters to feel the same way -- that if you build the best site possible, your good rankings will follow. This isn't the answer that most webmasters want to hear.


The rest of the article can be found at http://websitehelpers.com/seo/

The article is really a series of articles on SEO. They are well worth reading.

Again just my two cents worth. Take it for what it's worth.

Carlos

[carlos123]

I recommend http://www.seofaststart.com - free download by Dan Thies.

SEO is super easy. And it makes me A LOT of money.

That's a winner Lynn! I've read his stuff before. Great stuff.

Maybe we're saying the same thing in a different way. Maybe I just need to do some re-reading of things like you and I have both read apparently or maybe I just need to pay more attention :o.

All I know is that the things I am working on such as putting together a possible joint venture to propose to internet marketers is going to bring a lot of traffic my way without any attempt on my part to cater to the search engines. I am focused on getting traffic in non-search engine ways and that's a focus I want to continue to have while building great content.

And that's a focus by the way that I recommend to my clients. Try and find ways to get traffic without relying on search engines while continuing to develop useful and great content which will eventually get you good organic search engine results too.

Carlos

[carlos123]

Here are a couple of notable quotes I found in the article I linked to...



Do NOT think about the specific nuts and bolts of how a search engine will rank your pages. Instead, build good, quality pages for your visitors, and trust that the rankings will follow.




You get good rankings by building a quality site, not by trying to figure out exactly how the search engines rank pages. It's counter-intuitive, but you get good rankings by ignoring rankings and focusing on quality.


One more...



People seek out my advice about search rankings because they know my sites rank well for a whole host of search phrases. And I promise you I didn't do anything special beyond what's listed above. I certainly didn't worry about keyword density, META tags, submitting my site to the engines, reciprocal link requests, or any other nonsense. I simply tried to build quality sites. In fact, early on I didn't even consider my search rankings. I just built good sites and then noticed that they ranked well. Really well.


Good stuff.

Carlos

[Lynn Terry]

I agree with those points - except the meta tags. I do write a meta description for my pages, and it does get used in the search results. It takes seconds to do, and it's as important as coming up with the wording for a paid ad. To quote Dan Thies, "It's the best Google ad you never paid for".

I also focus on content and quality, and I don't preach that SEO is the "be all end all" of Internet Marketing.

But it would be silly to create content without optimizing it for a specific keyword phrase. That's like hiding it and hoping someone will find it. I like to do my target market a favor and put the information right where they're searching for it. It's not rocket science.

I do agree there is a lot of hype and misinformation out there about SEO. Which is why I recommend Dan Thies' free download. It should be required reading for ANYone with a website ;)

[carlos123]

Well put Lynn!

I am humbled that you, a successful internet marketer who knows her stuff and has a proven track record, would even bother to interact with me...an SEO wanna be by comparison on this here thread.

Despite all that I already know and have done I still have a great deal more to learn.

Thanks for being gracious and understanding Lynn.

Carlos

[Lynn Terry]

Well somebody has to keep things straight around here ;)

[carlos123]

For the benefit of us all. Thank you Lynn!

You've done a great job in making this forum a nice place to hang out and get input on!

Carlos

[carlos123]

You know it's interesting but one of my site pages has reached the number 5 spot on the first page of Google for the keyword phrase "copyright issues with web developer". I beat out 56,900,000 other pages having some or all of this keyword phrase in them somewhere.

Admittedly this is a very long tail keyword phrase and I don't expect a whole lot of traffic from it as it is.

But what is interesting is that I did absolutely not a single thing to cater to the search engines at all on this or any other page. Not ONE thing.

If I tweak the page a bit I may be able to get higher for this phrase and perhaps a few other related phrases. Don't know.

Not that going from position 5 for this phrase to position 1 is going to do a whole lot for me mind you. I mean 1 or 5...their both pretty good I think. At least good enough. Not sure the extra tweaking is worth the effort as opposed to just creating more pages.

Here's the page if anyone is interested....http://www.carlosgonzalezconsulting.com/copyright-issues

I just found it interesting that in spite of doing nothing to get good ranking I ended up getting good ranking for this page anyway.

I think I am going to write a few more pages of valuable content and add them to my site. Who knows...I might be able to start generating some descent traffic to my sites from off such pages and then...just maybe...some business off the search engines :). I still haven't set up a descent payment processor yet though. That's a problem.

Carlos

[ChuckMorgan]

Thank you for the interesting dialogue.
I've focused most of my efforts so far on one particular site of mine. I have listened carefully to Lynn over the last year or so and basically just followed her instructions. Not in as much detail on any specific points as I should have, but followed an overall strategy. If she says "get this book it has good info" I usually get it, read and apply what I learn from it. I do this because like most here I trust Lynn's judgment and advice and although no one is ever right all the time, she has a pretty good record so far with me. I also subscribe elsewhere to SEO newsletters and sites.

As far as content goes, I have it and I try to make it relevant up high in the text along with proper titles, header tags, meta tags (which I believe still carry more weight than most think). But I really don't have an abundance of it as I really don't like reading (on web sites) very much personally. Give me video any time and get to the point, but that's me.

As sales training in the RV industry is my main source of income, I have focused on that site the most. In addition, I have attempted to cast a broad net to get found and have had very good results. I started a numerous video channels and use tubemogul for that along with being part of several article sites, as well as starting a blog. I try to stick with the authority sites for the most part.
I have taken Lynn's advice and repurposed as much of my content as possible in order to leverage my time through duplication. i.e. videos into articles and blogs, along with email marketing free newsletters, video tips etc.

By diversifying where I place my content I have achieved not only page one rankings on all the major search engines but usually enjoy 5-7 rankings on page one of Google under RV Sales Training and regularly list 1 and/or 2 on the others. Over the last few months sites I have never heard of are linking to articles and videos I have posted elsewhere and those listings are ranking with no effort on my part at all.
I am however in not just a niche market, but a micro niche as far as I'm concerned. Where there are 60k car dealers in the US there are only around 2-3k RV dealers and a handful of trainers in my field.

My goal has been to dominate the search engines within my market place so as when things recover, should a dealer look to the internet, I will dominate page 1 & 2 if possible. This has paid huge dividends so far this year and I really only think I have scratched the surface. I can think of numerous things I can do to continue my marketing efforts and improve my results even further.

I am beginning to apply the last year's education here to my other 23 sites as I have time. I can tell you that marketing consistently can pay huge dividends. I took my seo results and developed an ebook for RV dealers from which I made several thousand dollars in a few months time. I attended a webinar on how to make money with webinars and started training online to save my market money during difficult times, and went from 0 to $2k a month in 90 days in that venture alone and it will no doubt grow to 4 to 5 times that with some additional effort. This takes about 8-10 hours of work per month.

My next step is to apply the same basic principles to my web video production site as I upgrade my video equipment and expand that business.
Rather than screwing up all my sites at the same time I figured I better understand as best I can what I'm doing and what works and then apply it to the next site. Beginning to automate things as best as possible is also an important next step.
I undoubtedly will make more mistakes but will have fun and make money in the mean time.
www.virtualwebvideo.com
www.rvsalestraining.com

[carlos123]

My hat off to you Chuck. You sound like you are doing great!

Carlos

[Lynn Terry]

Carlos,

It's EASY to rank for longtail keyword phrases. Especially if there is very low search volume. I haven't checked, but I'd venture to guess there is little to no search volume for that particular phrase.

As for the number of results, that is not a true indicator of competition. Your only competition is the Top 3 results. Period. Because that's where you want your link to be.

Read http://www.seofaststart.com It's free.

I'm going to keep saying that until you read it twice, and become a total top-ranking SEO convert... You'll thank me for it later, I promise. :)

[carlos123]

You know it's rather funny and rather humbling but I looked up the keyword phrase that I outranked 59,000,000 pages for and like you said Lynn...there wasn't even enough data to show up any searches for the phrase!

I will be re-reading Dan's stuff sometime in the next few days. For sure.

Thanks again for your input Lynn. Much appreciated.

Carlos