Is it workable to request some up front payment for work done over the Internet?

[CherylAntier]

Hi Carlos,

I've just checked out your Website - nice job. As a copywriter, I have a few suggestions for you...

First of all, while I appreciate the fact that you only charge $25 an hour, as a potential client, I don't need (or want) to know the process behind it, or that you're feeling conflicted about over charging... Why? Because when you tell me that, it shows me that you're not sure you're worth $25, and if you don't think you're worth it, I'm pretty sure you're not... As a client, if I'm looking for a web consultant, I want two things:
1. Someone who knows what they're doing - an "expert"

2. Someone who will do what I'm hiring them to do which is to make my Website be found online, attract new visitors and convert them into paying clients.

So when I'm looking for a web expert, the only things I want to know is: Are you the right guy for me?

So, as a copywriter, my suggestion to you would be - take out everything from here:
..."The hours that I bill for (i.e. billable hours) are not always exactly the hours that I actually spend working on a project. They are almost always less.

This is because I do not feel it right to charge my clients to learn to do something I have no previous experience with (unless they willingly pay me to learn something I have no professional interest or need in learning to do). My clients pay me to use skills I already have (or to quickly refresh particular skills they need but which I haven't used in a while) not to learn new skills on their time.

There are exceptions in that sometimes a client will pay me for some learning time to get up to speed on how to work with their source code in particular, learn a new technology they want me to implement which I would not take the time to learn on my own, or otherwise. But such exceptions are not the norm.

If I do not wish to take the time to learn something on my own to service a client need I will let the client know so that they can find someone else or I will get pre-approval from them to charge for taking the time to learn something new.

Carlos..."

Because you're wasting valuable space there - because people visiting your site don't care about that. (If you really feel you need to say that, put it somewhere else - on your "about me" page, for example.) Instead, tell me about your services. I may not know what a web consultant is, or I may want more information about what you can do for me... so tell me. But not about the process.

Next - your introductory offer... I think you're going to get a lot of people who will take you up on it... But... (Okay, I'm new to the forum and the last I thing I want to do is get labeled as a meanie...) But Carlos - let's say you get 5 people who take you up on your offer...

That means you're going to get paid $250 - and you're going to be doing 25 hours of work - that's 3 days worth - plus more, because you and I both know there's prep work, research, and a bunch of other "non-billable" hours that go into what you do. But even if we leave it at the 25 hours... You're making $10 an hour...

The problem I have with this for you, is that once you've got a client who thinks you're only worth $10 an hour... or $25 an hour... you're going to have a hard time convincing them that you're worth more later on. And you're going to attract the kind of clients who only want to pay $10 or $25 an hour...And you're going to be working your tail off to survive.

So I have to ask you a question... Are your services worth more than that? Really and truly?

Because even if you're just starting out - even if you don't have a portfolio - (and there are so many ways to build one...) you can't run a successful business making $10 or $25 an hour. It just can't be done. And why would you want to??? You can go get a job and make that much money.

My strongest suggestion would be for you to decide what you're services are worth - and stop apologizing for what you're going to charge - and just start charging that.

At the very least, you might want to charge $50 an hour - because if you do a breakdown of it - even at $50 an hour, with a full client list, you're going to end up with between 20 and 25 hours of un-billable time every week - not to mention there will be times you don't have a full client list, or you want to take a vacation, or you get sick and can't work... so I'd suggest you cost it out - and look at your expenses, your un-billable hours, and what your profit margin is... And I'd also look at what your competition is charging.

As an online business owner, perception is everything - the way your customers perceive you IS your reality. And the people I'm afraid you're going to attract are the people who are going to balk at paying the $25 deposit, and they'll also be the ones who expect you to do even more than you're willing to do right now... and they're the ones who are going to end up stiffing you in the end.

Real business owners - even those of us who only have online businesses - expect to pay for professional services. We know that while every now and then someone like you comes along who does a fabulous job and is undercharging, for the most part, you get what you pay for. And because our businesses provide us the lifestyle we enjoy, we're willing to pay to have those things done right, rather than going cheap and then having to have it done over...

Finally, the only other thing I wanted to add - to what several other people have told you - the Industry Standard is 50% down. People expect that, and they do pay it. As a writer, I have clients in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the UK and the states - I've not met any of them face to face, and yet they still pay my 50% deposit up front, before I begin their work. Your clients will do the same - as long as they believe that you're a professional who is going to do the job.

So once you've figured out what you're worth - and what you need to charge to build a strong and thriving business, go back over your Website and make some changes to your copy... put in your new prices... and then start marketing your business. You've got lots of experts in here who can give you some very valuable advice about how to do that... so you can attract the level of professional clients you want - and will love - working with...

Well, sorry this was so long... I've got to run - I've been in Paris on vacation for the last nine days and it's time to get packed. We're going to take a side trip to go see some castles on the Rhone river, before heading home and back to work on Tuesday!

Warmly,

Cheryl

[carlos123]

Wow! A lot of very insightful input Cheryl. Much, much appreciated.

I will have to chew on what you shared for a while but there are couple of points that you make that I want to comment on right away.

First off...yes, it's difficult to run any kind of real business on $25 per hour. Even $50 per hour might be tough due to the many hidden costs of doing business that you alluded to. I am in agreement with you on that one.

But there are a couple of things that lean things in my favor even at the lower rates. My expenses are next to nothing in my life. I mean literally. Without going into the details of things in my life, which I would be happy to do but it would take a small book, I pay all of $200 in rent per month to live in the middle of San Diego! That's for a private bathroom, bedroom, stove, fridge, unlimited internet...the works.

So my expenses are so incredibly low that I can afford to charge less.

There is another factor to consider. And this is something that I have been told. There are Indian programmers (from the country India) that can run circles around what I do...maybe, or at least come close, and who charge only $15 per hour. Putting aside having to work through all the problems associated with finding these good programmers in India, which problems are substantial, one can still end up finding such good programmers. For about $15-20 per hour.

My worth or how I see my worth is relative to what I see the market bearing for services like mine. If I could charge $50-100 per hour you bet I would. But it has been my experience that I can't charge that. I have talked with a number of programmers and that's just not doable anymore. It's not a matter of my not seeing my worth as much as a matter of where I simply can't charge the higher prices anymore. I just can't if I expect to get business.

Now there are some things about my services that make paying me to do web development work something of value. For sure. I can create and help a web site owner maintain a web site easier than even WordPress can give them for one.

But clients don't know that. And they won't know that until they hire me and try me out.

Thus my low price specials.

It's the only way I know to draw new clients in. I expect to lose at least half when it comes to paying me $25 per hour but that's okay. I'd rather get half than none at all.

Most of my advertisement is on craigslist. The competition there is absolutely unbelievable. Fierce. Maybe I need to find a different pond to swim in.

With the bad economy, Indian programmers and general outsourcing, even Philippinos willing to work for $3 an hour off the freelance web outsourcing sites...well...you got to draw new clients in with less than $100 per hour pricing or new clients won't give you even a glance.

There is a cap on how much one can charge and that cap has been moving downward in the web development field for years. The average charge for web design and development work right now is about $25 per hour based on what I have heard from other web developers and designers.

That's actually pretty good for me given my really low expenses.

If I could get a bunch of clients at $25 per hour I'd be real happy. That's not much mind you but it's way more than I really need.

Lastly my goal is not to continue to be a web developer. I learned what I did to develop my own sites. To have the capability to develop what I wanted, when I wanted it, and how I wanted it. With a view to developing an internet passive income business.

I am offering web development services on the way toward my goal. To put bread and butter on the table. But as soon as I can start making enough to consistently make some decent money I want to then focus on developing those passive income streams. That's my goal.

I will definitely think about what you said Cheryl and I will definitely cut out some of the excess verbiage that you pointed to. Your right in saying that a lot of potential clients don't care to know if I will charge them for every hour, including those I learn in, or just the one's where I am using actual skills I have. I guess I just want to let potential clients know that I will not operate like a lot of web developers do. To get every penny I can from them. I will operate with integrity and honesty. That's more important to me than the pieces of paper commonly called money. I think I need to figure out better ways of getting that across than letting prospective clients in on exactly which hours I will charge for.

I guess that's about it for now. That's all that comes to mind.

Oh...Paris is great if you can stand the snobbishness of the Parisians (or ignore it). Don't bring back any French cheese...they'll confiscate it at the border .

Thanks again for your valuable input Cheryl. I will definitely be re-reading what you said a few times over to see what I can gleam from it.

Carlos

[carlos123]

Just so you know Cheryl (I don't know if you will see this post given that you are on vacation) I made the change you suggested on the My Rates page.

I also reworked my introductory specials and increased the price on the 5 page web starter package from $99 to $125 per your suggestion to charge more . I know it's not much of an increase but I am purposely keeping the price low to hopefully attract new clients.

We'll see if my increased price makes a difference. I suspect it won't in line with what you said but we'll see.

Carlos

[CherylAntier]

Hi Carlos,

Wow you're fast - good for you. (And yes, I'm still on vacation... not in Paris anymore, tonight we're in a town called ChateauRoux - which translates to Red Castle, and I'm guessing its got something to do with a bloody battle, but I won't know til tomorrow and can ask around!)

Anyway, who is your "ideal" client? I mean... do you have a preference for doing specific types of sites (I know you do blogs) but I mean, do you have a particular love, niche, passion or interest? Or a client (besides the ones who can pay you) that you just really enjoy doing a particular site or type of work or in a particular industry?

Or, do you like doing b2b type sites? Or consumer sites? Do you like working for big picture thinkers or linear types?

The reason I'm asking is that now that you're online, and you've raised your prices, let's figure out how to get you more of the people you like working with, and get you some clients fast... Craig's list is one way, but like you said, the competition is fierce. Same thing if you go on the sites like elance, rent-a-coder, guru.com, odesk, etc. And there's absolutely no way you want - or need - to compete with the people on them, because like you say, they'll willing to work for so much less.

But that doesn't mean that I agree with what you said about being able to charge less because your expenses are low. The whole point of having your own business is to create the kind of lifestyle you want - and that's (probably) not going to happen unless you're making better money.

And my other question is, what are you REALLY excellent at? With your business - what's your favorite thing to do that you really shine at?

Can't wait to hear back from you - this is fun!

Warmly,

Cheryl

[carlos123]

Gosh Cheryl,

I am not quite sure what to say...well...that's not true. I guess I am just a bit in shock and awe (hmm...I've heard that term somewhere before...hmmm) as to why you would even bother to give me extensive and valuable input. But hey...if you keep the input coming I will certainly keep listening .

More comments below yours...

Wow you're fast - good for you.

Aw...shucks...thanks Cheryl

I guess the reason I am so fast is that...well...I kinda live in front of my computer. I sit around on the computer so much that sometimes I wonder if my legs are starting to atrophy. I've get to get up more often and walk around some LOL.

I'm not addicted to the Internet, not at all...I can drop it in a heartbeat to hang out with friends or otherwise, it's just that there is so much to do over the Internet and so little time to do it in.

(And yes, I'm still on vacation... not in Paris anymore, tonight we're in a town called ChateauRoux - which translates to Red Castle, and I'm guessing its got something to do with a bloody battle, but I won't know til tomorrow and can ask around!)

The little towns spread out throughout the French countryside have real charm. Great photo taking opportunities and great cheese if you get to visit a cheese making factory. Nothing better than to sit under a real old castle or home, munching on some old cheese and French bread and drinking some deliciously chilled French wine while looking out over the gently slopping French countryside watching the little birds fly around.

I do wish you a continued great vacation Cheryl!

Anyway, who is your "ideal" client?

Hmm...quite frankly and this was not at all planned on my part for me to be here for this purpose...my ideal client is an internet marketing type person or other individual who wants a simple web site done quickly and who likes to get their feet wet at making changes for themselves but not too much.

Someone who doesn't have time to fiddle with WordPress installation and upkeep and who wants something even simpler but very effective. Kinda like my own web site. A header, a footer, navigation, some nice background and lots of text with a web form or two and maybe some MySQL thrown in for good measure.

Limited Javascript, no Flash (it's way overhyped and really not necessary for an effective web site), no video (unless hosted at YouTube or some such), just a good, effective, sharp looking web site that is easy to maintain and who wants a real programmer like me to back them up when they might need me to be there for them.

I am not yet set up to offer simplified blogging using my own code base so for now if a client wanted to set up a blog I would only be able to offer it done through WordPress which I can certainly do but if we are talking ideal...I would not want to have to teach a client how to work with WordPress for a simple blog. It's kinda like using a tank to go and get some bread in my opinion. It's unecessary to use WordPress for such and really might make things more complicated than they ought to be.

I really like using the code base and principles I have developed and used effectively in my own sites to service client needs. Ideally it would be great to have clients who are willing to let me show them what I can do for them without the use of WordPress for non-blogging sites at this point in time.

I like my code. It's efficient. Super easy to work with. Small in footprint. Doesn't use up a lot of server resources. Very secure. Easily modified. In short I like using code I have already developed and used. It's easier on me and less costly to have clients let me use it on their sites.

Or, do you like doing b2b type sites? Or consumer sites? Do you like working for big picture thinkers or linear types?

I have no preference there Cheryl.

The reason I'm asking is that now that you're online, and you've raised your prices, let's figure out how to get you more of the people you like working with, and get you some clients fast...

Sounds great in theory. The reality of being able to get new clients fast might be a wee bit...well...more difficult to realize

But I am certainly not disagreeable to being a sort of guinee pig in your hands of input to see if it can't be done LOL.

But that doesn't mean that I agree with what you said about being able to charge less because your expenses are low. The whole point of having your own business is to create the kind of lifestyle you want - and that's (probably) not going to happen unless you're making better money.

Good point Cherly. You are of course correct. People don't much care if I can charge less because my living expenses are so low. That's not a selling point in other words LOL.

And my other question is, what are you REALLY excellent at? With your business - what's your favorite thing to do that you really shine at?

I love working with clients and having them be satisfied with what I produce for them. Customer satisfaction is very important to me. Without it I would cease to do business. Seriously. I want more than just the money. I want to feel good about what I do and the services I provide. Without customer satisfaction I don't end up feeling good about myself and that's not good.

I am really good at client interaction and at listening to client needs. I am an outstanding writer if what others have said about me is to be believed. I am very detail oriented while not losing the big picture.

Let's see...

I am really good at sticking to something until I get it right. I guess you would call that bone headedness of sorts but that can be a good thing in many cases. I won't give up.

I am really good at explaining complicated computer and internet ideas to people who don't understand either. That is why I have been thinking of getting the word out about my web development services through some sort of e-course or other such mechanism. To build a list through it.

Can't wait to hear back from you - this is fun!

I am humbled that you would be willing to interact with me on this against the backdrop of the beautiful French countryside. I mean if I was in your shoes I probably wouldn't even open my computer and otherwise interact with anyone over the Internet for the duration of my vacation. I'd be out taking photos...another favorite activity of mine.

But hey...to each his own I guess. I certainly won't take your fun away if helping me is an enjoyable thing for you to do during your vacation :

Carlos

PS. Please know Cheryl that I do not expect your futher input or help in any of this but if you continue giving it to me...I am of course all ears.

[carlos123]

You know I was thinking about what you asked a bit more Cheryl and it dawned on me that my perfect client would be the very person who inspired the design at my web site.

Jimmy D. Brown!

He is really good at what he does and his sites are simple but effective if they are nothing else.

Here's the site that originally inspired my site design (http://www.primeplr.comwww.primeplr.com).

Do you see some resemblence there to my site? The same general site colors. The same gold bar across the site horizontally. The same basic header and footer type of site with the copyright at the very bottom.

At one point my site was looking just like his (the bottom of my site was even reflected like his) until I started playing around and changed it to suit my fancy more. I was using his sites for ideas on simple but effective site design.

Here's the other one I was looking at for ideas and inspiration (http://www.srzone.com/).

I really like his sites. They are super simple...well if you know how to create the graphics for them...but very, very effective. I like that and ideally I would want to create sites like his for others.

Jimmy D. Brown is a great example of my ideal client. Someone who knows what they want and who is not interested in all the uneccessary fancy stuff. Just clean, effective web sites that are easy to maintain.

Carlos

PS. I am not at all affiliated with or involved with anything Jimmy D. Brown has to offer other than one of his free newsletters that I read. I say he is good mainly because what he says makes sense and because other internet marketers that I respect, respect him in turn (though he gets a bit too markety for my tastes sometimes ).

[CherylAntier]

Hi Carlos...

Interesting what you said about your ideal client. Have you thought about approaching Jimmy (who is a very nice guy), and talking to him about doing a joint venture? He has his fingers in many different pies... and one of them is helping people get online quickly... and part of that, of course, is getting a website (or blog) up fast - without all the bells and whistles, one that's clean and does what it's supposed to... Your prices are good... he's got lots of things to sell, and he is always looking for a new venture... And the worst that could happen is that he would say no. But what if he said yes???

And as for the vacation thing... During the last 15 days, I've gotten up early in the mornings, so I could do an hour's worth of work - because I want to, not have to... Then after a leisurely breakfast with my husband, we'd head out to play tourist... I've done the Eiffel tower, a cruise down the Seine, Notre Dame, the Louvre, the Musee D'orsay, the Pantheon, five or six other churches, including the one in St. Denis with the graves of Marie Antoinette and several Louis', the Moulin Rouse, Montmartre (where I discovered a fabulous singer who I think is going to become a big star), watched a group of dancers doing the Michael Jackson thing - the one that's big on YouTube right now, so I filmed this one... let's see... Versailles... well, you get the idea... So I really am vacationing. And then, when we get back to our hotel after 8 or 9 hours of a feast for the eyes and the soul, I unwind by getting back online... it's been a blast! (I love vacations...)

Anyway, back to you. Before you approach Jimmy... (and I'm totally serious about this), think about what you want... Clients yes... but more than that... How many clients could you handle at one time, and still get everyone's work done on time? What would be involved after you get those sites done? (Do you maintain the sites or have anything to do with them when they're done? Figure that out too...) How long would it take you to do a site? Five sites? Ten?

Then think about what your offer would be to Jimmy... what would he get out of the deal? Why would he be interested?

And what would your new clients get? Again, think total offer... put a value on all of it. (As far as bonuses go, Jimmy would undoubtably have some ideas on that...) But spec out everything a client gets - go into detail - because not all of us understand the value of that stuff...

When you've done that, you've got your joint venture offer - polish it up a bit, and write him an email - or call him. If you're not comfortable doing that out of the blue, ask someone to give you an introduction.

I'll be happy to go over your offer and make suggestions - and although I don't know Jimmy really well, I'd be more than happy to introduce you. If your offer is worthwhile, would bring value to his list, and would give him an additional stream of income as well... it sounds like it would be a win/win situation, and who knows what could happen next?

That's one idea... I'm sure we can come up with more - because something else I don't recommend is doing just one thing - whether it's marketing yourself, building your business or creating income. My grandmother used to say, "If you put all your eggs in one basket, you'd better learn to like scrambled eggs with bits of shell in them."

Talk to you soon!

Warmly,

Cheryl

[carlos123]

Hi Cheryl,

Great to hear from you again.

Your description of your French vacation sure brings back a lot of memories. I probably stepped on the very same cobblestones in the very same places you have visited. What a small world it seem like sometimes!

Interesting what you said about your ideal client. Have you thought about approaching Jimmy (who is a very nice guy), and talking to him about doing a joint venture?

I've actually thought of approaching another internet marketer about doing some sort of joint venture. Where I would provide them with e-course material and allow them to use my e-courses to give valuable content to their subscriber list while allowing me to put my services and web site before his subscribers or some such arrangement.

I just haven't followed through with that yet.

Never even thought about approaching Jimmy. In part, for me, it's like approaching the President of the United States only in this case little ol me would be approaching the President of Internet Marketing. Mind you I don't think that would be a problem for me in that I have also done work approaching big wig executives at big corporations and calling on them over the phone to set sales appointments for salespeople with them. So I could call him.

But usually...calling on such persons is not...well...as easy as calling my mother LOL.

Mostly it's just never even dawned on me that he might want to work out something with me. I've always assumed I guess that someone of Jimmy's stature in the Internet marketing world already has everyone he needs for whatever he needs them for.

A perfect angle to approach him on would be to thank him for the inspiration for my web site LOL.

I can see where his subscribers are a whole slew of perfect clients for me though. Hmm...I'll have to put something together as a joint venture proposal just for him.

That's very gracious of you to offer to review my proposal before I submit it to him Cheryl.

How many clients could you handle at one time, and still get everyone's work done on time?

Ahh...now that's a much bigger problem than approaching Jimmy Cheryl. Realistically I don't think I could take on more than about 4-5 clients per week initially. Not if I was to devote myself to getting what they want done quickly and to give them the kind of excellent customer service I want to give them.

I mean maybe I could take on a whole lot more. Especially once I work out the kinks in my system of creating efficient, mean, and fast web sites that are easier to maintain than a similar one created through WordPress.

But for now I think 4 or 5 per week would be about it.

Of course if clients wanted to use the basic template I have on my own site I could handle 4-5 per day never mind per week. It's the graphic creation that really slows thing to a crawl. I must go back and forth with a client to get them to explain to me exactly what they want their site to look like and I must give them some mock ups first before I go off and actually start creating and coding their site. This up front time which is necessary is what takes the most time. The coding and creation of the actual site once the graphics and overall look of a site are out of the way is a piece of cake and not time consuming at all in comparison.

Mine is a service whereby I create a fully customized, non-template site for my clients. So the sites I create are not cookie cooker stuff. They are unique at least in the graphics and overall look and feel (along with the content of course).

Maybe I need to get away from this and go find me a good templating site that will allow me to offer sites to more clients through the use of such templates but then again...that would make my service almost like an assembly line which I don't like. I like the personal touch where I interact with a client to give them what they want and where I have a chance to be creative in the proposed look and feel of a web site.

I am not opposed to using templates. I just don't want to become a cookie cutter web developer.

What would be involved after you get those sites done? (Do you maintain the sites or have anything to do with them when they're done? Figure that out too...) How long would it take you to do a site? Five sites? Ten?

Excellent questions Cheryl. I'll have to think those through. I can see right now that I have been winging things too much. I need to batten down the answers to these questions. For sure.

Then think about what your offer would be to Jimmy... what would he get out of the deal? Why would he be interested?

Also a good question. I don't think I could offer him a cut of my pay since my charge is still relatively low but also because making more money might not motivate Jimmy as much as something else.

Maybe I could offer him some intangible benefits. Like being able to offer a professional class e-course to his subscribers making himself look better in the process and solidifying that base of his subscribers all the more to stick with his newsletter or something like that. A benefit that is not directly tied to his making more money per se. God knows I can use all the money myself even if my expenses are real low LOL.

And what would your new clients get? Again, think total offer... put a value on all of it. (As far as bonuses go, Jimmy would undoubtably have some ideas on that...) But spec out everything a client gets - go into detail - because not all of us understand the value of that stuff...

I will have to do that Cheryl.

When you've done that, you've got your joint venture offer - polish it up a bit, and write him an email - or call him. If you're not comfortable doing that out of the blue, ask someone to give you an introduction.

I'll be happy to go over your offer and make suggestions - and although I don't know Jimmy really well, I'd be more than happy to introduce you. If your offer is worthwhile, would bring value to his list, and would give him an additional stream of income as well... it sounds like it would be a win/win situation, and who knows what could happen next?

That's very gracious of you to be willing to introduce me Cheryl. If you don't mind me asking what contact have you had with Jimmy before? Would he know who you are?

Let me work on a proposal some Cheryl. I'll post back when I have come up with a potential win/win for both me and Jimmy (or anyone else caring to do a joint venture with me on this).

I doesn't have to be with Jimmy per se. It can be any internet marketer I guess since it has become evident to me in this thread that my ideal client is exactly the kind of person who is listening to internet marketers and needs a fast, efficient, and small web site to get their internet business ideas off to a great start.

Carlos

[carlos123]

Let me run this by you first Cheryl before I go off to spend time writing up nicely and to turn it into a proper and profesional looking proposal for Jimmy (or any other internet marketer who wants to join me in a joint venture).

Here's what I am thinking in brief.

A base series of 20/30 (maybe less) lessons on how to create a web site using HTML, CSS, and PHP. Efficiently, quickly, and with minimum fuss.

The lessons will focus on using my source code object files which will greatly simplify the process. I mean to the point where the simplicity of it will be something within the reach of anyone to do.

In other words I will have written most all the source code necessary to create a web site of the kind like mine is. All a user will have to do is call various functions that will generate the desired page for them such that they can generate a web page with 6 lines of calls to my powerhouse functions (as an example).

It will be a bit more involved than that in that custom headers and footers will need to be indicated and such but it won't be complicated at all. And completely centered on catering to the needs of his suscribers to get simple, efficient web sites up quickly. My lessons will take them by the hand and show them how to do everything one simple step at a time.

They can have custom headers/footers and graphics created by me or any other web developer of their choice. Or they can create their own.

The source code will be made available to anyone who pays me for a license to use it and do whatever they want with it with the only exception being that they cannot seperate the code from the copyright that comes with it nor can they alter the copyright. That's it. Other than that they can do whatever they want with it on as many sites as they like. Using my lessons as a tutorial on how to do things.

The license to use my source code will cost $50.

I will likely want to make available a seperate course on creating graphics using the GIMP (a photoshop like program) that I will charge something for as well though I don't know how much that would be. Maybe $100.

The GIMP is free open source software by the way. My lessons on the GIMP will be way different than the usual stuff found on the Internet. The usual is outdated, hard to follow, incomplete, or othewise not very user friiendly. I know...I've seen most of the tutorials out there. Very frustrating to get through them when one is just learning to use the GIMP.

Or they can pay me to create the web site for them using my normal rates or specials.

The base lessons can be added to his newsletter, one lesson per issue, put together into an e-book or a report or incorporated into anything else that he would want to incorporate them into...his choice.

In a sense his using my lessons and promoting them to his subscribers will enable him to have PLR rights to those lessons. But just him. No one else.

These lessons will not be offered this way to anyone else for one year after he starts promoting them. He will be the first and only one able to offer them.

My only requirement would be that a small link to my site would be included in the lessons giving me credit as the author of the lessons. And that a little blurb be included about the $50 license when appropriate in the course of the lessons.

What do you think overall Cheryl? Does this sound like a win/win for both of us?

Mind you this is very preliminary but it's what I have in mind so far.

Some among his subscribers will eat these lessons up and build their own sites off my code base. Some will want me to build the sites for them. Some won't do anything. But if I get a combination of 5 new customers paying for the source code with some having me build websites for them every week it will be worth it for me to do this. I can do very well on the money that will come in through 5 such new customers per week.

For me money is truly not an end but only a means. I have other things in life that interest me far more and I think making $500-1000 a week is more than enough for me.

In short I will span the gap between the principles that Jimmy espouses on how to succeed on the Internet and the nuts and bolts needed to create an actual web presence web site. I will become a web developer to an internet marketing guru's subscribers LOL. Taking care of them and otherwise helping Jimmy to help them succeed in line with the things he teaches them.

Anyway something along the lines of that described above might be doable.

If anyone else has any input on this please pipe up and let me know.

Thanks.

Carlos

[Regina]

Carlos - great topic! I have to add my 2 cents here as well

Having a service like Wahmcart.com let's me know just how much merchants actually use paypal. I have to say that 95% of my customers utilize paypal only although they have the option to use both or either one (merchant account and/or paypal) AND the fact that those who are doing great in business are generating nice income by using Paypal.

I've had my run-ins with Paypal too but nothing like you experienced. Let us know how everything works out for you.