Yesterday I shared a link to a product, and specifically because I had just ordered it myself and it was on sale. Not a little sale either, but literally a very generous $40 off.
The product was Popup Domination, which has been very popular - even at the usual price of $77. It has been on sale for $47, but I found a way to get it even cheaper - for only $37 - which is the buying tip I shared.
As you can see in the screenshot image (top right), one of the replies to my 'share' was less than positive. But I thought Mac brought up some great points, and I wanted to open those up for discussion...
Mac MacPherson says: Oh Please. Lynn i'm disappointed in you. Not 'cos the product is bad, but because the guy selling this is like a second-hand car salesman. Cheesy as hell. Surely you must get fed up with the same old dreck being told on these sales videos? Just as i believe in trying to create quality content, i also believe in buying from those who don't reel out the same old crap sales techniques. Com' n Lynn. -source
Very interesting comment, and definitely food for thought. (Thank you Mac!)
The interesting point is that Mac's concerns weren't over the product itself but in the sales strategy & process.
I checked out the product because it's in line with something I am working on at the moment. Namely, improving my list building process. One of the things on my task list is to create more appealing subscription forms and landing pages.
The product we're discussing is Popup Domination, by the way.
I'm not a huge fan of pop-ups, and I know most of you aren't either. You've told me so. That said, there is a time and a place for a professional lightbox.
Also, since there are PSD files I figured I could configure some of the nice forms to work on page as well as in a lightbox or popup. I was just looking into that this morning. Here's a screenshot from my computer:
To state the obvious, I purchased the product. Honestly I paid very little attention to the sales videos that Mac mentioned, or to any of the sales page elements at all. I was analyzing the product to determine whether it was what I needed to accomplish my task - or not. I determined that it was, or at least worth checking out hands-on for the reduced price, and so I placed my order.
I did notice all the one-time-offers in the sales process though. I declined each of them and completed my purchase. It didn't really faze me and only took a minute (90 seconds tops) to get through to the download page.
My point is that I gave no thought to the sales strategies, the person selling the product, or anything else other than whether the product was right for me. Did I want the product or not? I chose yes. Everything else was just scenery.
This is in line with something I've said often, which is:
Only buy what you need, when you need it, to accomplish what you're working on right now. Period.
I don't purchase based on sales copy, and I don't NOT purchase based on sales copy either. Right or wrong, that's my stance. It's all about ME when I'm pulling out my credit card. That said, I get Mac's point - and it's a good one. He's basically saying he wouldn't buy the product on principle alone.
There are exceptions, of course - such as when I've already had a negative experience with a merchant or marketer. Or when something has been discussed publicly in a negative light. Then I'm more cautious (wary, even) and less likely to purchase based on the product alone.
I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on this. What drives your buying decision when it comes to Internet Marketing related products?
Are you easily swayed, easily put off, or do you focus on the product alone? I would also love to hear your thoughts on my mentioning the tip to get it $40 off - if you have a thought on that to share...
Best,
p.s. The tip was to go to the page, then close it without ordering. When you close it you will get an offer to buy the product for only $37 (instead of the $47 sale price). It doesn't include any of the bonuses, but that may suit some just fine.
The sale is still live and the "close page" trick still works at the time of this writing
About Lynn Terry
Yes, the sales copy is gimmicky, but who really cares? Does the product deliver or not? Frankly, when someone I trust and respect recommends something, I read the sales copy only enough to decide if I can use the product. If I can, I buy it. If not, I move on. I certainly don't take a product recommendation as an endorsement of the sales copy or selling technique.
Ditto to what Cindy said. I have used a similar product with great success but bought this one because of the better templates and PSD graphics. Lynn, you have demonstrated perfectly how affiliate marketing is supposed to work. You helped me with the buying decision so that the sales page was irrelevant.
Thank you for your input ladies. I purchased based on Gideon Shalwick's recommendation - for the same reason. And it was the PSD files that sold me as well. Honestly, at the price it was a no brainer (for me).
Hello Lynn
The fella does bring up a good point. The strategies used in IM
now are ridiculous...but here is what you can do...and what I do
If the product is good, but the sales letter is annoying or too many popups with upsells downsells sidesells whatever sells...
You can just say something like "I purchased this product and I find it to be a really nice addition to my business.
I gotta warn you though, the dude on the sales page is annoying and there are a few upsells which I did not try so I honestly can't recommend them"
I recently got an email from a marketer that I subssribed to for a month...and he sent me to a page where the gentleman in the video started out by saying "You Don't Deserve To Be Watching This Video..."
I immediatley unsubscribed...I don't care how good that product is
But no, not dissapointed in you
I think everyone knows you mean well and you don't blow up our inbox with crap.
I think many could learn from your examples
-Mark
As a copywriter and marketer myself, I can see through all of those marketing tricks and tactics. They're annoying as hell, and truth be told, the upsells to Popup Domination were a big turnoff.
But because I am a marketer and copywriter, I know what elements of a sales piece to ignore and which elements to focus on to decide whether the product is something I need, want and will actually use.
As an affiliate marketer, it is frustrating when you find a good product that you know will be a good match for your audience -- but the owner acts like a slimy used-car salesman. If the product is too good to pass up or, in this case, the offer is really good because of the significant discount, then I'd overlook the sales strategy and maybe warn my audience about it.
I don't know why Mac would be disappointed in YOU, Lynn, when you don't have control of this marketer's strategies. I did appreciate you spreading the word on the discount, especially on a product I'd had my eye on for some time. In fact, I didn't bother to read the sales page or watch the video.
What would disappoint me, is if you recommended a product that you knew sucked, or didn't know much about at all, just because of big commissions -- something I know you'd NEVER do.
Definitely not. In fact, I'm more likely to promote something with lower commission (better deal for my readers) or even no commission (just because it's a great product).
Honestly, the sales process didn't bother me at all, as I mentioned in the post above. I'm also probably not the most objective person as I tend to fly through decisions and processes based on what *I* want, and not on what's in front of me.
In this case I checked out the product, looked for the order button and went through the purchase (scanning & passing on the OTO's because they weren't relevant to me). It truly never occurred to me that there was anything slimy about the page, but like I said - I paid very little attention to all the "scenery". LOL
I read the copy, did not watch the video and bought the product because I knew I could make use of it. Maybe they are overselling - but I didn't let it hold me back.
"but I didn't let it hold me back"
Good for you. When I'm buying, it's all about ME. That's the way it should be, in my opinion...
The product comes with a solid guarantee. Mac should try it and see if it helps his business.
Is he against all direct response marketing style of advertising? We know he doesn't like used car salespeople either.
I'm curious as what is an okay way to sell for people like Mac? I didn't watch the video but the product is solid and you were sharing a great deal so I don't see the problem. Talking about unleashing on the messenger. 🙂
Hey Lynn.
I bought Popup Domination (WORKS LIKE GANGBUSTERS, BTW) for the low price of $37 myself. I love it! The video presentation for the product may have been a little bit over the top, but the product ROCKS!
Let me just say that we have to weed through the hype sometimes to find the good AND the bad.
Thanks for the great post 😉
Seth
For the record, I *liked* Mac's comment. First because I love bold honesty (completely different than random bashing). And second because it made me *think*. He makes a good point, and it was definitely a conversation opener!
Yes, but if he's going to criticize he should offer a solution. He wrote he doesn't want to buy from folks who use the "old crap sales techniques" but doesn't offer examples of what he perceives to be the better alternative. Hopefully he'll comment here with the alternatives then we can really have a conversation. And keeping it within the IM space since that is the target audience for the product in question.
So kudos to Mac for starting the conversation but lets hear about solutions. How would he do it differently?
Poor Mac LoL guys prolly never going to give feedback again!
I have a story that relates to this and might help a few people. It's a about a restaurant I LOVED! It was the best food in Tampa and right around the corner from me.
It was the first place I took all my friends and family to eat when they came over. I literally spent about $100 - $200 per month eating there.
Then one night I got really bad service, disrespectfully bad service. I haven't been back and today I'm still mad about that night.
I love you Lynn, but I believe it's about the product AND the customer experience. Definitely not disappointed in you in any way. You are amazing and I consider you a role model, literally.
I just don't think this guy Mac was off his rocker for being upset with the customer experience part of the product.
Great example, Justin. But it's a shame that one bad experience out of many good spoiled you on a favorite spot. Is the person that gave you such bad service even still employed there?
I had a bad experience with a young lady at a local drive through a couple years ago. Bad enough for me to get out of my car, heated, and go in (in my PJ's no less - LOL). We just about had it out over the counter. Did I mention I live in TN? haha
Anyway, I still eat there. I refuse to do without something I enjoy just because a little teeny bopper pissed me off one day. 😛
That said, I understand where you're coming from. And I know a lot of people feel that way after a similar experience. It's personal preference, which is totally cool.
I have to admit I thought it wascheesy so i did not even watch. About 30 seconds in I deleted and went on with my life. I love to get referal ideas from people I trust, but even that wasn't enough to make me listen let alone purchase from this video.
Smart move not to waste ANY of your time on it if you didn't specifically need the product or want to test it out. No way I would sit through a video (cheesy or not) if I wasn't shopping for what they were offering...
Interesting points on both sides here Lynn. Personally, I'm more like you Lynn, in that I don't judge a product based on the marketing technique used.
I purchased PopUp Domination several months ago when I saw it being used effectively on another website that I follow. I made the decision based on the product features and whether or not it would be a good fit for myself and also for my clients' needs.
I appreciate the product reviews and information you share and would be really bummed if you started factoring in marketing techniques into the equation. I just need to know the product features and how well it works, or doesn't work.
If I were going to do a full review, I probably would have walked through the order & installation process on this one. I've done that before to explain bits of it. As it was, I had just purchased the product for myself and was simply sharing the hidden discount that I found.
How are you liking Popup Domination, by the way? I'm just getting it installed and playing around with it. Super easy so far!!
If I buy a pop up product, it will be Popup Domination (despite the cheesy sales techniques) because it's a great looking pop up (better than AWeber's options).
But, I have an SEO concern with popups. Lynn in your experience do the search engines punish sites with popups? I've read this, but have never tested it.
I would rather be recommended a great product with a cheesy sales process than a lousy product with a smart sales process. Popup Domination is hugely popular (I see it everywhere). So the owner doesn't have a refined sales process - he's probably doing it in a manner he's been taught. The fact is he came up with a killer product that many people buy and use.
I hate upsells as much as anyone, but again, all is forgiven if the product I buy is quality.
Man, great point Peter! I would rather buy a great product from a crappy page too - than a crappy product from a super pro. Ha!
I'm not sure on the popups. I would probably not use one here on ClickNewz or any of my main sites that rely heavily on search engine traffic and user interaction. My real intent was to see if I could snag the code to use ON page (vs pop-up). It was worth $47 to me to see if I could. And I'll use the lightbox on other sites (mini-sites) anyway that are marketed in other ways, so SEO wasn't a factor in my decision...
Enough comments here and I think Mac is creating a tempest in a teapot. Look at the product and make your decision based on that. If his tender sensibilities are so damaged by something as trivial as an online advertisement, he's in for a rough journey in life. What I agree with, that would make me upset with you, is if the product sucked and you recommended it just for an affiliate commission.
I promise not to do that - at least not intentionally. 🙂 For the record, I didn't "recommend" this product either. I simply shared the secret discount I uncovered while ordering it for myself. I'm still getting it set up on my own server, so I am not far enough in to make a personal recommendation yet.
But yeah, I get your meaning. You can rest assured I would never risk my reputation - for any amount of money. 😉
I have bought some darn good products before that had annoying marketing. Then again, I also have not trusted some reportedly good products before because they had annoying marketing. Regardless, I don't want anyone to avoid reviewing or recommending a product solely based on its marketing techniques. If everyone refused to cover something because of its cheesy marketing, the only info out there about the item would be from that very same marketing. What good would that be?
True. All of this brings up a great point. A few years ago a book came out, and the marketing strategy was *awesome*. The book sucked. I know because I bought it LOL. Lesson learned: a great book doesn't sell, the marketing strategy sells.
You can't always judge a book by it's cover - or it's marketing.
I'm not disappointed in you Lynn. I do get turned off and will not buy some products because of the sales copy / presentation. My view is that if they're not creative enough to have a unique sales approach then chances are they're not going to have a worthwhile and uniques product.
Steve
Sometimes that's the case, sometimes not. You could easily say I'm not creative enough to make a nice opt-in box and a professional opt-in incentive, so why subscribe to my mailing list? (Obviously I'm working on that, thus this purchase -lol). Those things don't affect my mailing list, of course. And I've opted in to some cool forms & offers before... and found the list itself less than engaging.
All said and done, I'm not sure the frontend and backend match up all that often.
I didn't even look at the sales page because I don't like using pop ups. However, I am not disappointed in you because you were doing what you do--sharing products that your target market will be interested in. I would have been more disappointed if you kept quiet about the discount when you knew there were people interested in the product. Truthfully, it would take a lot for me to be disappointed in you. 🙂
Good point. I could have just not mentioned the discount trick at all. 🙂 Or waited until the sale passed, wrote a review, and promoted it full price as an affiliate so I could earn a higher commission for the higher price. 😛
I'm not planning to review/promote this product, btw. It was a personal purchase and a money-saving share.
Lynn
I did buy the product a while ago so not through your link unfortunately.
One time offers are a pain in the rear end, I can only assume they deliver more profits because I can't stand them.
The funny thing is though that I'm now programmed to leave a page, just to see if they offer a discount with the "wait don't go" message that pops up.
At some point a marketer will come up with a new model... Make a product that's really great, explain why there is no need for a OTO or up-sell as the products delivers everything it originally promised.
Me thinks there's a great business model here. I know that Zappos got there first and it's all about service that people talk about which then drives referrals... and lots of them.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Regards
Steve - based in the UK
I'm turned off by hypey copy, OTO overload and pop-ups in general... I'm a past customer of Popup Domination and an affiliate, just to be completely transparent. I did not see the sales page on their current offer because I already have the product. It's a great product; it flat-out WORKS. Like I said, I don't personally like pop-up optin boxes, but they *convert*. So do sidebar opt-ins, top banner opt-ins and below-the-post opt-ins -- on some sites I use them all. Point is, we need to put aside what turns us off (within reason and within our moral & philosophical boundaries) and go with the metrics. If it tests well, then it's a keeper. That's just good business, right? 🙂
Exactly.
In most cases, our personal opinion does not matter.
Our test results do.
I think what Mac brings up is valid. As an affiliate marketer, you are awesome or guilty by association. Whether that's "fair" or not is another matter.
But YOUR reputation CAN suffer because of things the creator of the product that you are "soft-selling" does. If he or she offers value, provides great fulfillment, and awesome service after the sale, you're reputation will benefit.
If the contrary occurs, you may suffer some "guilt by association," simply because you made the recommendation.
I personally wish that fellow internet marketers would do a little less selling and a lot more servicing, but that's me and probably why I'm not an internet millionaire.
Generally, on principle, if I'm confronted with a bunch of add ons and "but wait, there's more" and "are you sure you want to leave?" I bolt. My perception is that the person doing the selling is so desperate to make a sale that he won't let me go. I find that utterly distasteful.
However, I know *it works." For me, the question I ask is, "Is it worth me feeling slimy?" for me to put that in my sales copy.
Good point on awesome or guilty by association. I've found this to be true over and over. Unfortunately sometimes the affiliate gets the bad end of the deal - when a merchant completely changes their sales copy or process for example. Or in one case many years ago where I highly recommended a guy... and then he went bad on me. I had to mail my list and do a recon mission on my recommendation.
But you don't always see it (things behind the scenes, customer service for example) and sometimes the bad taste just sticks.
all marketing is annoying. especially to those of us that see it all the time.
remember, most of the people that would see any given sales page don't see that many. we see them all at one time or the other and can spot those "cheesy" things.
I am with Lynn, I rarely pay any attention to the marketing and skip all the way to the bottom of the page for the buy button or the no thanks button etc.
robert
I have this product and like you don't buy from hype but buy from need at that time. It wouldnt put me off if the product was reputed to be good / I had a simple money back guarantee that always refunded (clickbank). It works well and I am happy but the sales video was over the top.
(easy to see how you and Jen Sheahan are mates as you both have ethics high on your agenda)
Jay
UK
Jen is awesome! 😀
I get the point that Mac is making and I have some sympathy with it as I do find that the approach can put me off. However, I also think that we should not judge the book by it's cover and give the product a good try out before coming to an opinion on it's value or otherwise. Also, because the internet is global we have to accept that there are cultural differences in the marketing approach in different countries and if we are operating in this global village, then we must accept those diffrences
I actually enjoyed going through the selling process even though I didn't buy any upsells. I am creating a product for people right now with different options, and it was good for me to see what I did and did not like in a "slick campaign." Usually everything at Clickbank looks exactly the same anyway, which is my one concern about putting my product over there. I just like the ease for my affiliates.
Plus I thought your email headline, "Are you disappointed in me" was another study in effective email subject lines. hahhaa Made me click, but then I'm always interested in what you share.
We were just discussing email subject lines here:
http://www.clicknewz.com/2849/best-email-subject-lines/ 😀
I find every purchase to be a marketing lesson - a swipe file - either positive or negative. And not just in IM, but when I'm buying ANYthing online (furniture, clothes - you know me, everything! lol).
Keep in mind that *your* target market won't have been inundated with ClickBank products or processes. You're less likely to get the "worn out with this" market with your product. 😉
I wasn't disappointed in you at all.
That said, Mac has a point about not buying from those using slim bag marketing. When you buy from them they think that kind of marketing works.
The people in my markets are seriously turned off my those techniques so I am very cautious about recommending things like this. If I do I usually tell them to ignore the hype and buy the product anyway but it's got to be a stellar product for me to do that. This is also why I don't sell anything listed via Clickbank. The vast majority of those sales pages simply make my skin crawl.
My own disconnect is interesting. I do think the sales page & process reflects on the reputation of the affiliate recommending a product but I never thought of you in that way. Why? I know you, and you are the most ethical internet marketer I know so I trust you.
I am glad that you posted your response and Mac's comment. I am a new follower of you and you have convinced me that I made the right choice.
With that being said, I didn't have a great experience with the customer service for Popup Domination. I use a custom theme (Thesis) and there was some challenge with the popup and it didn't work.
The setup seemed simple, but it never worked. After contacting them numerous times and getting caught up in the horrible loop of autoresponders and no action, I requested a refund and only then did I get a response from a person (which still led to them not delivering).
Sales tactics are a reflection of the service IMHO so Mac's comments are not surprising. Had he purchased it? His comments may have been worse.
On principle, I wouldn't buy it again.
Hi Lynn.
I agree with what Mac above said inasmuch as the sales techniques used by the PUD team are lousy. I can't stand their way of battering the buyer into submission, but, the difference with me was that I assumed you felt the same way.
My thought processes went like this : Ah! Lynn is promoting that pop up product from those severely annoying PUD guys. She probably finds them a pain too but thinks the product is worth it. I must remember to look for what I want in something and not be put off by stuff that doesn't matter, if I want to be as successful as Lynn is.
The thing about your weekly teleconferencing meetings is that the people who attend then get to know you and you are so obviously genuine, caring and honest that I felt I knew this was not you going off the rails, but you filtering the bad stuff just to get quickly get to the good stuff.
There is little I can teach you, but I would say this -> always state the obvious. What is obvious to you isn't always to other people and can lead to misunderstanding. I am continually surprised by the results this simple technique gets.
Liz
lol Lynn, I don't know why it popped into my head but are you sure this not Michelle MacPherson's male persona?
Dear Mac,
I say lighten up! I wasn't offended by the cheesy copy on the sales letter nor by Lynn's recommendation of something she found that was interesting and perhaps useful to her tribe. Lynn's recommendations are one of the reasons why I follow her. I respect her opinion but more importantly, I trust her. I KNOW she makes money from affiliate links but everyone has a right to make a living don't they? I trust that cheesy copy or not, she is not going to recommend something she wouldn't think was in the best interests of her tribe. She's got too much to lose at this stage in her career.
@Leigha - Naw, although I did have a similar discussion a few years back on my blog. I'd gotten a commentor unhappy about the sales tactics used by a product I recommended and explained, like Lynn, that I don't care too much what the sales page looks like or how the video is done. I care if the product does what I need.
I'm surprised how many folks here are "annoyed" by certain sales techniques or OTO's. Annoyed? Really? Seems like a bummer of a way to go through life, letting that kind of irrelevant stuff annoy you.
Remember, what's "annoying" and "slimy" and "over the top" to you might be perfectly OK with someone else, and what you think is OK is "annoying" and "slimy" and "over the top" to another person.
This stuff is subjective!
@Michelle - I know right? It's the intent that is important.
I'll admit there's stuff out there that I personally "perceive" as not worthy of my hard earned cash and guess what??? I don't buy that stuff!! Unless of course, it came with a recommendation by someone I know, like, and trust! Then, I can just chalk up the hype to it's creator being overzealous with bad copy writing skills. I'm a firm believer in giving people the benefit of the doubt & keeping my energy positive.
For those who feel differently, you can take me at my word that life is too short to sweat something as trivial as this in the grand scheme of things!
Hi Lynn, I'm totally enjoying this post, the debate, and the popup domination offer.
First, this is the kind of copy that sends me running from an offer in no time flat: "Increase your subscribers by 429% over night." Nuff said about this kind of marketing.
On your original recommendation, I was tempted to look, but then the name of the product includes the word 'domination' and that one bothers me, too. 🙂
So today, I looked. I personally do everything in my power to NOT resemble this kind of marketer and take great pains not to exaggerate or hype up anything I represent either.
I'm not a fan of popups, but I do think a marketer must use sales/capture pages to encourage the act of subscribing and a carefully designed and placed popup is OK.
Question: Is the production with popup domination managed via a WP plug-in using sub domains for url's? That simple? And does it create non-popup pages?
The reason I ask, is I'd rather spend $37 one time, then subscribe at $30 a month for an email/capture page service I'm using now.
Thank you for being one of the most honest, thrifty, and realistic marketers I've ever come across online.
As marketers we should know the sales process well enough to know what to ignore. I do consider the process though when I am making a recommendation due to the fact that I am directing a person to someone's sales funnel and depending on their level of experience, they may or may not know what actions to ignore. Just my two cents.
I think Popup Domination is a great product, although they do email you too much for my taste once you get on their list. Good product - and like you, I didn't pay attention to the sales techniques because I didn't need to be sold on the value of list creation. One thing I will do in my reviews if I think the sales process is cheesy or has too many upsells is I'll warn readers before they even get there - but bracket it with my strong recommendation of a product I truly believe in.
I know you appreciated the honesty of the comment, but instead I think he should have just expressed an opinion on the sales technique - which has NOTHING to do with you, and therefore nothing to be disappointed in you about. It's not your job to be an arbiter of taste in sales techniques.
I'm not just blindly jumping to your defense because I care about you - I think it's important to separate the two issues - the PUD sales process and Lynn Terry the person.
This is a great thread! It's something that strikes me a lot with internet marketers - if they recommend something and the sales page is one of the cookie cutter over hyped irritants, then the person doing the recommending can be seen as part of that irritant process.
That's where the relationship building over time comes in.
The more people get to know you, the less they will think you are just jumpingon some commission bandwagon.
I agreer with previous comments, that if you dislike the sales page, it's worth saying so.
Of course you want and need to make money. One good way is through affiliate sales. I don't fault you for that. But, truth be told, when I'm enticed by a good subject line of an email,and then open it to find you're selling someone's product, very often not a person I admire, I tend to not open the next email. Or, if I do, it may be three days later when I have a chunk of time to go through old emails.
I had learned to trust your words, your own words and advice, so when you use an article to tout somebody who's got less on the ball than you, IMO, it makes me wonder if you really do have that much on the ball? You know?
Sorry to be so blunt, but you asked and I've had these thoughts for several months now. This was the crowning one.
First, convince me that the seller is spectacular and then mention what he's selling/ you're helping him to sell/ That's what I'd like to see. If possible.
I personally don't care if the seller has five wives and two of them are angora goats, if the product is going to improve my life, help me make more money, and doesn't cause any ethical harm to anyone.
Hey Lynn,
I love that you are so willing to teach and suggest things that work for you. I have made it my mission to do the same myself but to also make sure it is MY vision I've injected into my site.
I detest pop-ups so much that I won't use them, don't want to talk about them or read about them. Naturally that is a personal choice and when I read your email I thought -- "oh Lynn, that is probably not a good idea -- well maybe it is for you but definitely not for me".
I work at using the things I love on a topic I love and in such a way that I never end up hating what I have created. I've tried many things but those things that make me cringe to start with I just click delete and move on to the next item on my list.
If I come across a cheesy site that seems like it was created on the lather, rinse, repeat cycle I delete those too. I want someone to give me some honest info that they wrote about how their product works, why, backed with STATISTICS and keep it believeable. I won't scroll through 27 pages to find the order button.
Ginger
For me, this didn't seem like a "new" product. I've seen this same type of "popup" technology on other sites for years - and a lot more often lately.
What bothered me is the sales process for this product - and that's one factor that makes me run from a product for two reasons:
(1) The money back guarantee. Let's be real: there is NO guarantee. This seller is relying on the fact that a percentage of buyers will want their money back and ask for it, while a percentage will want their money back but do nothing. This percentage is so low that this seller still makes money and takes the losses in stride. Why doesn't this seller offer a personal guarantee? (You can see my definition of what this should be by reading the "guaranteed to succeed" promise on my web site.)
(2) On the $37 payment page, it states that the price is going to expire in 15 minutes. I've checked the page 4 times today (from several different computers - and surprisingly prior to your email about this post): the "expires in 15 minutes" notation is still there. This "you must buy now" tactic annoys me to no end.
Unfortunately, I have hundreds of these types of products, ebooks, etc. - most of which I never use. So, I have my own system in place that takes into account a variety of factors:
(1) The two items mentioned, above.
(2) As you said: seeing if it's a fit for what I'm doing now.
(3) Search the internet to find reviews of the product (good, bad, ugly) and if there are similar products (which there always are) that are a better fit.
(4) Your opinion/recommendation, Lynn. I know you too well to every think you would steer me in the wrong direction.
I do have the freedom to make my own decisions: I just make sure they're educated ones.
With that said, I do feel this past week seemed to be a flood of offers coming from you; however, that isn't typically the norm so it really wasn't an issue.
Lynn,
First, you gained top credibility for giving the savings "tip."
You would be surprised how many big name marketers don't let their list know a $10 exit page discount is available. My guess is 75% of ClickBank products have a discount exit offer.
When I want any ClickBank product marketed to me I always attempt to leave the page or reject all OTO's to see the hidden savings.
I once did a little survey by contacting a few affiliate marketers who didn't let their list know about the exit discounts...most did not reply, several said they weren't aware of it (discount) and one unknown marketer told me to "F-Off and get a life." 🙂
So even if I have to wade through five OTO's to get my ten bucks off. I learn something from every one of them...placement, style, etc. I'm new to IM so its all education for me.
The real question is why that "cheesy" style sells both good products and junk over and over, day after day. Who is influenced and persuaded by that style?
My guess is you and probably Mac aren't "impulse" buyers...too much experience in marketing. Not the target audience.
I didn't need the product but thanks for the "Tip" keep them coming.
Regards,
Jim
Treasure Island, Florida
Wow, it's wild how people can make snap judgments on first impressions. Good lesson for all marketers to fully grasp.
As for me, I saw Popup Domination (when it was originally launched) being used on a site I visited...I then looked it up and bought it simply because of having seen it in action...not because of any promo video or sales page. It did what I was looking for just as Lynn mentioned when she says, "Only buy what you need, when you need it, to accomplish what you’re working on right now. Period." Great advice.
ANOTHER IMPORTANT LESSON:
I can talk about this now that it has been fixed, but the Popup Domination site had a flaw that numerous internet marketers make...people could actually go directly to the download page without purchasing anything simply by loading /robots.txt. The "thank you" page with the download link was listed in the robots.txt file and could therefore easily be accessed...for free. No purchase. No email signup. Nothing.
I still purchased the plugin (it's a great plugin with some great email signup designs) and then emailed Michael Dunlop (one of the creators of Popup Domination) about the "hole". They have since fixed the robots.txt and no longer have the download page listed in robots.txt or anywhere else.
I wouldn't drop in a link if it wasn't absolutely relevant, but here's a link to more info on this exact issue...this is the link I sent to Michael to fix it and to keep people from getting to his "hidden" pages and download link:
http://www.genuineinternetmarketing.com/internet-marketing/how-people-steal-your-hidden-files/
Thanks for that heads up on the robots.txt Shane!
You're welcome! Hope it helps!
Shane,
Like you, I bought it a while back after seeing it in action because I thought it looked so much sharper than a typical aWeber lightbox.
Exactly! I've never really liked the design of the popups of providers like aWeber...this just looks much cleaner...plus it works perfectly with wordpress & mailchimp (which is the email service provider I use).
Hi Lynn
This is a great thread and it seems everyone has their own opinion about it and it has been enjoyable reading all the perspectives.
I am not disappointed one bit. Although I agree with many others and do not care for the presentation, I looked at it because you recommended.
I have a great deal of respect for you and the way you have built your business over the years. I like the fact that you mail infrequently and that the products you promote are ones that you believe in.
Keep doing what you are doing and I will continue to look forward to your every post.
"I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on this. What drives your buying decision when it comes to Internet Marketing related products? "
Reviews. I rarely read sale pages. I hate them. I hate using them myself for my products. Especially in the IM field if i read several reviews where the author actually uses the product and talks specifically about how they use it then yes I may buy it. I follow your advise Lynn to never buy anything unless you need it that moment. And to be honest I still prefer to read books at a physical bookstore. If i can't find a book on the topic then I look online second.
If the way a product is being pitched is morally repugnant to me, I won't buy. For instance, I wouldn't care WHAT they were selling at what price if there were scantily clad women involved -- and it's not lingerie that's being hawked!
I do think that the sales process says something about the integrity of the person who's doing the selling. But it's not black and white; there's a lot of grey area, and to each his or her own. That being said, when I recommend something to someone, it's important that I recognize that the product being recommended (and the sales process involved) is a reflection on me. Like you teach us, it may call for a disclaimer such as, "The OTO's in the checkout process are annoying, but I still find this to be a great product at a good price."
What would concern me is the backend. If the sales process is sleazy upfront, I would worry about how my information -- and that of those I'm recommending -- would be used after the sale. Will it be sold? Will purchasers be bombarded with useless upsells, downsells, crosssells?
The point is, when we recommend something, we have to look at it not only from OUR point of view (is it useful to me right now?) and from the point of view of those we're recommending it to. How does the recommendation reflect on me? Am I recommending something from someone I can guarantee is a quality businessperson? If not, I need to make a disclaimer. We have power and influence as industry leaders. And with that power and influence comes responsibility.
Lynn,
I had the pleasure of sitting with several copywriters at a seminar in Las Vegas this weekend. As I listened to them talk I joked that I much be hooked because I buy products w/o even reading sales copy nowadays.
That said, I do not buy based on sales copy. I buy because it's a product I need, or it's suggested by someone I trust. (Lynn Terry, Ed Dale, Mark Mason, Pat Flynn, etc...etc...)
I dislike the longpage sales letter - but they do it because it works (regardless of our like/dislike).
I am greatful that you share feedback both positive and the 'not so' positive. As Seth Godin recently blogged - feedback is a gift. Thanks for sharing.
Short comment, Lynn.
I did not look at it, though I believe I have before. However, would not effect me a bit in your case. Why? Simply put, I trust you. And sometimes that's how I may look at something.
Perfect example. Yesterday was interacting with an online friend. We had talked before (phone and email) and he informed me of a website he is using that he thought I might be interested in. On his recommendation I looked and got the free version of the marketing tool he was talking about.
So, "disappointed"? Absolutely not.
May you and those you love have a great week,
Lee
Wow... what a great way to turn a comment into more comments... the work of a pro if you don't mind me saying...I usually think of you as the "velvet hammer"... you get to the close with southern sweetness... so anything you recommend I check out...isn't the purpose is to get the order?...once in awhile people get a little salesy...yep it even happens in Wisconsin....but it wasn't you ...but now you got my attention again ...where's that link?
I'm absolutely not disappointed in you Lynn! The way I look at it...we're all adults. Some people just need something to whine about. We all know how the game goes. What I'm grateful for is the fact that you passed something along that could POTENTIALLY benefit me in my business. I believe it will. Thanks for posting!
Okay, wow - the more comments you get, the more I HAVE to ask a question: Are one time offers always considered slimy, or is the hypey way in which they are presented? I know human psychology, says you have the best chance of getting them to make a decision to buy when they've already made a small commitment, and if I really want them to attach VALUE to the free material I'm giving them, and apply it to their life, than I am going to make a way to inspire them to put some investment there.
If the advertiser doesn't take the time or effort to give me a professional presentation, then I figure he isn't going to take the time or effort to build a quality product.
If the advertiser is going to continually bash me with more offers, I leave. I can take one upsell, but no more. After I've "ordered the fries," I don't need to hear about the McDessert. Too much pushing causes the underwear to get tightened, and that hurts, rather than helps me. Especially at my age.
Lynn, the problem is that if he used a different sales strategy the number of sales would be lower. This form of selling hits some primal chord in all of us.
Those that are more involved with marketing pick up the nuance and are bugged but the average guy absorbs it just like we do watching the Japanese cooking knives at the local fair. Guess what? Sales of knives are good!
I have to say that during the ordering process, I had a few thoughts about whether you were a different person than the one whom I have come to know through your website/blog. I kept going through the process and kept discounting the negative thoughts, repeating in my head about what I already knew about you and your recommendations. I figured the product would be terrific. But it was a battle. There was a conflict.
Hi, Lynn,
The Lesson Here: Look over very closely anything you decide to recommend to friends. Fortunately, the pitch was merely cheesy, so we all get off easy. If the guy was a scamp, then, uh, oh! for all of us.
It is your right to market what you want in the way that you want to do it. There is nothing morally reprehensible about somebody using a popup on their site, it is just what they are going to do on their site.
And it is their site to do what they want to do with it. I personally have no big issue with someone selling affiliate products by telling a story of how they use it and there are links to the product in the story. That often works pretty well.
If I buy something, and in order to replicate the same results as the product creator, I have to buy something else, then I get irritated. But just telling a story about you are going to use a product and then offering it for sale, that model is pretty benign.
Lynn's site works well for easy going recommendations.
I don't particularly like Popup Dominator mostly because those things are everywhere now and I think that long term business relationships that work for both parties are not often based on dominating. But that is my opinion, not fact.
No disappointment here, lots of great ideas and ways to use products. Thank you for starting up a great discussion.
The bottom line is how effective the product is, not who is selling it or the sales letter. If the product will enhance your life and make a huge return via income, health etc. then by all means make the investment.
People who judge and discriminate based on appearance or their first impression or even the sales letter of a product miss out on a lot of what life has to offer.
That's why the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep complaining.
Anyway, I'm sure we can all find fault with any of the people making negative comments above, since most of them are selling one thing or another on websites of their own.
Seriously, thanks for the recommendation Terry! Personally, I really didn't find anything wrong with the sales page or the OTO's at the end of the offer. These people above must have never bought an internet marketing product online before. This is what most of the ads are like so get used to it. I know a great product that will increase my bottom line when I see it so thanks for the 411 on this offer.
Anthony
Hey Lynn,
Looks like Mac makes some of his buying decisions based on the sales copy and sales process and thinks you should do the same.
I've been online long enough to know that good products, bad products, it doesn't matter, those same old crappy sales techniques get used a lot, so I'm a little numb to them.
What's most important to me is really knowing if a product is good and worthwhile buying based on what someone else has experienced with it, and that's what you delivered.
Bottom line, you used the product and made a simple recommendation based on that. For me that's all I need. If you were just pushing it without having any real reason to do so other than collect a commission, that would be different. But you're not like that and we all know it 🙂
Disappointed in you? Not at all 🙂
Mac is SO right about the sales copy and video for Popup Domination - major cheese - BUT the product is great. I have talked with numerous friends who are using it (I'm getting it now) and have seen great results with their list building.
As weird as it sounds - sometimes ya gotta take the bad to get the good.
My 2 cents.