I called it Mad Guru Disease.
Scott Boulch called it the Digital Ebola Virus.
Joel Comm is "now focusing his efforts on the Top 1%" in the market.
Big change is happening below the surface in Internet Marketing. Buckle up for a little truth talk - and be prepared to take stock on where you stand...
At the beginning of the year, John Reese released a shocking video that stirred up quite a bit of controversy. Both the video and the high-dollar training that followed taught people that Internet Marketing is the best niche to get involved with - even if you have had zero personal success (or even luck) at it yourself. The controversy around that 'revelation' was successful. The IMA course sold out in 14 minutes flat.
Scott Boulch called him out for that in a recent report titled The Internet Marketing Cure. You can download it free at that link, by the way. I highly recommend you grab a copy and give it a quick read.
I first heard about this report in a blog post by Rick Butts, where he suggested that anyone reading along unsubscribe from every mailing list where they received an email promotion about the recent Stompernet launch.
I thought that was a bit harsh, until I read the report for myself. And then I analyzed the Internet Marketing folder in my own inbox for the entire month of May. I offered a brief overview of all of those email messages in this post: Internet Marketing Recap May 2008.
As I scanned through those filed messages I saw Armand Morin promoting Russell Brunson, Michel Fortin promoting Armand Morin, Jason Potash promoting Jeff Johnson, etc, etc, etc. There were some great tips in there by Willie Crawford and Yaro Starak and a few others mixed in there as well - but to be honest, the majority of the messages were strictly promotional.
Of course, I have good reason to remain subscribed to a certain number of "Guru" mailing lists. Its my business to stay in the know, and to pass on what's cool - and what's not. That's what I do. But even I filter it out, pare it down, and keep the IM noise at a semi-tolerable level. There's no way I could focus on my own projects otherwise...
I dont mean to give you the wrong idea here. I'm not one of those Guru Bashers. In fact, there are several Internet Marketing experts that I admire and respect - and I purchase quite a number of guides, reports, tools & memberships year after year.
At the same time, I dont mind to point out the obvious pitfalls in this industry either. In fact, I feel obligated to point them out - and to give my readers the facts (and warnings) they need to make better decisions.
Just in the last year, I've published:
- The 7 Symptoms of Guru-Envy
- Help! Trapped In A Guru Database!
- Spam-Risk in a Volatile Market
- The Gentlemen’s Club of Internet Marketing
- Evidence Of Mad Guru Disease
- 7 Most Annoying Things Internet Marketers Do
- Has Internet Marketing become a dirty word?
All of these posts refer to a changing trend in the market, and a BIG one at that. Over the last two years I have quietly watched these changes rise to the surface, bringing us to a near boiling point.
Where does the "fault" truly lie?
Is it the Guru - or is it the fan club that follows that Guru? Let's be objective for a moment and look at this from a fresh point of view. Anyone can claim guru status. But its the following that actually creates that guru.
It puts me in mind of that saying: If girls will be ladies, will boys be men? In other words, if we continue to subscribe and buy and comment and blog about and so on and so forth... are we just perpetuating the very problem we are complaining about?
Going back to the example of John Reese's IMA course in January, consider the fact that John has a mailing list of thousands of rabid readers that basically want to be just like him. Therefore he was delivering exactly what his readers wanted. Does that make him a bad marketer?...
I propose that we each take personal responsibility.
There is entirely too much dissention in the Internet Marketing circles. It has practically turned into a breeding ground for heated opinionated discussions - instead of productive sharing and brainstorming.
I've heard a number of terms in private conversations lately, from "spidey senses" to "bullshit meter" - it seems everyone has theirs turned to full tilt, waiting for the first opportunity to pounce and attack.
Take the recent hot topic of Forced Continuity for example. In that post I discussed both sides of the 'accountability fence'. That topic was a direct result of the uproar following Joel Comm's use of that model in a re-launch campaign... and I was the first to admit that I didnt even read the sales copy before I clicked the order button.
I'm actually happy with my purchase, recurring charge and all - but the point is that it wasnt Joel's fault that I jumped the gun and didnt read the terms of the sale. I dont care how well 'copywritten' the page was... it's still is (always has been, always will be) a Buyer Beware market.
It's time to take stock...
How many blogs do you read?
How many forums do you frequent?
How many mailing lists are you subscribed to?
How many social networking sites are you actively involved on?
I know you're doing this all in your head at the moment, but take two seconds to guess what percentage of the information you consume on a regular basis is actually contributing to your success.
Would you say it's as high as 50%? As low as 10%? The answer is going to be different for everyone, but I am guessing that that the number is on the low end. Lower than the typical 80/20 Rule even.
It's time to take stock of the information you consume. Is it helping you or hurting you. Is it taking you closer to your goal, or distracting you from it? The typical response is to lash out at the source of distraction. I encourage you to take the high road... and take personal responsibility over what you consume, and also what you do with that information.
The bottom line is this: Yes, there are problems in the Internet Marketing industry. Yes, you have a voice and you should use it when necessary. Yes, there is a major shift in the market at the moment. Yes, there are annoying Guru's out there.
But ultimately your choice is much more powerful than your voice. The collective voice has been heard, and there is much proof of that across the board. But when the collective choice starts talking... positive change will be inevitable.
Best,
P.S. Earlier in this post I mentioned The Internet Marketing Cure, a new (free) report by Scott Boulch. If this topic resonated with you at all then you'll want to download a copy for yourself and give it a quick read.
There are 2 reasons I'm recommending "the cure". One, because Scott offers very sound advice that everyone needs to consider. And two because he also offers some free help in getting back on the right track. Read the report to find out how you can get your hands on all the free training Scott is offering.
I'll give you a full review of this report in my next post here at ClickNewz, so keep your eye out for that as well.
About Lynn Terry
"Take two seconds to guess what percentage of the information you consume on a regular basis is actually contributing to your success."
Ah, there's the rub. 🙂 Thanks for bringing that important point up.
Excellent observation, Lynn.
I have the same take. I do believe in promoting products. Like commercials, they help pay for my time in offering free, valuable content. And I also believe in expressing my opinions.
(There is a difference between being a "Howard Stern" and an "Anderson Cooper.")
But like you said, I also believe that we're in a period of transition. There is definitely a shift occurring right now. In fact, I wrote about these in '07 in a post on predictions for the new year.
Until we realize that there is a market out there beyond "Internet marketers" (I'm talking about beyond the ones who are already online and making money), we will continue to be what Paul Myers once said so eloquently:
"Internet marketers are a bunch of incestuous cannibals."
Interesting subject
Thank you Michel. I have to say, even though I mentioned your name in the original post - your mailing list is one that delivers A LOT of great content. It makes for an excellent example of the way email marketing should be done, in my opinion.
The transition in IM is definitely happening, and that shift has been slowly happening below the surface for the last couple of years.
I'm sensing a tension not unlike the atmosphere prior to an all out riot. My goal with this post, and others like it that I have published over the last year, is to shift the focus to how you can benefit from the situation - or at least the obvious lessons that can be taken away from it.
I look forward to reading your take - I'm off to check out your predictions post. Thanks for the link.
Lynn:
Great blog! I agree that the Internet is changing and the "Gurus" are the big cause. There seems to be a club of Gurus that work together and bounce JV's off of each other. They are making money with each other. The bottom line is there is an inner circle of these folks and they are making lots of money off of the newbie’s who desperately want to make money online. They know it and are taking advantage of it.
Dan
Lynn,
Great post. I also read Scott Boulch's report and had a similar take that you've expressed. Although I thought it was kind of funny that he seemed to be siding on the forced continuity side (at least that was my impression).
Lynn,
Really great topic and one that seriously get's me a little irritated. I to am subscribed to numerous Guru lists for a few reasons.
I like to see what everyone is up to. I like to see what I can do better and right where they are making mistakes.
Now I'll probably take heat for the last comment because someone may question me asking "How can they be doing something wrong, they just made millions from it" but let's be realistic here.
They are basically promising new people to marketing that if you buy the next $1000 course you're going to make a crap load of money and retire in a year.
It's almost a damned sickness because each new product that comes out and gets a super hyped launch sells out quickly and lines the pockets of the rich even more. Meanwhile some poor unfortunately newbie becomes fodder and gets their money and IM life sucked right out of them.
And we wonder why their is a 95% fail rate in internet marketing? Because people are frigging poor before they get started, then when they don't pull that fat paycheck in the first 20 days, 60 days or whatever is else is being promised, they give up and feel like they just got screwed.
Meanwhile $2000 later & 20 hours of useless video footage is just sitting there and the person who just wasted their money on it is confused how this is somehow acceptable and what they were actually suppose to learn from it.
You'll never catch me promoting this kinda crap. My products will never be anywhere near that expensive and I really hope people stop wasting their money on over hyped junk that they could get much cheaper.
People like Lynn here with her blog and forum do what's right. Offering low priced products and a lot of free advice to help people get started.
It's time to wake up the industry. But who am I? I didn't make a million dollars overnight haha but I sleep OK 🙂
When people send me emails saying my products have helped change their life and didn't cost them a fortune that makes me know deep in my heart that what I am doing is 100% Right.
To make any type of correction in the industry is going to take people doing the right thing and avoiding the greed machine.
So I'm not the only one who has toyed with a mass unsubscribe? I've been noticing this for quite some time too, and I'm glad it's a topic that is being discussed more.
I hate to say it, but IM has become so incestuous...I'm getting pretty tired of the same names scratching each others' backs to the point where 90% of their communications are sales pitches. If only everyone were like Perry Marshall, Michael Campbell and Yaro Starak....three of my favorite high-content, low-promo mailers!
Oh, and Lynn Terry too of course! 🙂 Can't forget you! Your emails are opened immediately because I know there will be something worthwhile in them!
Thanks Lynn for bringing up this topic again!
"Take Personal Responsibility"
THERE'S a thought I don't see too many taking serious nowadays.
GREAT take on the IM industry, Lynn. You've "been there, done that" AND you truly understand it.
Fast moving change has always been part of IM and I also believe that "near future" changes are gonna catch MANY people off-guard unless they pay attention to what's going on NOW.
You're so right there. Thanx!
Hmmm ....
"“Internet marketers are a bunch of incestuous cannibals.â€
LOL, Michel! That's definitely a Myerism. heh heh
Rick Wilson aka CorpRebel 8)
I was already planning on cleaning up the state of affairs of my in-box. I had blogged about it here: http://www.imnirvana.com/email-inbox-out-of-control
That was before I read Rick Butts post which re-enforced that I'm on the right track.
I don't see it as guru bashing. Hey they make a lot of money and it works but I prefer to make no money then become part of the hype machine a la used car salesman.
The bulk of IM lists ( these aren't even the big gurus), don't do anything but promote. They wouldn't send out an email if there wasn't a nickel in it for them. Get rid of those. Stick to the Lynn Terry's of the IM world and focus on your business.
Will there or is there a backlash going on? Perhaps but unless it affects the bottom line of the IM to IM folks there will be little change.
It's like politics-everyone complains about dirty campaigns and TV ads but that is what works so that is what we get pummeled with. I don't understand it.
We all get tired of being the carcass all the hyenas are fighting over yet we keep offering it up to them. So why would they change? It's making them money.
Sorry for being a bit bleak about this. Lynn, you know I'm more positive than what I sound above but I guess I'm starting to get jaded about the current state of IM. 🙂
I think it's good to tune in and drop out to paraphrase Timothy Leary. Focus on your business at hand and stop feeding at the IM information overload troph.
It is so easy to get caught up in the machine of IM... When I was first googling "work from home" etc, It literally took me months before I could sift through the forums, blogs, sales copy, and landing pages of "make money overnight, just click a button!"
Because I'm a Virgo and I tend to analyze and make choice based on logic, I was fortunate to never purchase an eBook, or some "system"... I've heard so many stories about newbies spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a system where the call to action is to promote the system itself, and that is how you will quit your dayjob...
A newbie hits the net, looking to make money online, purchases a product that explains in order to make money online, all you need to do is promote some gurus product on how to make money online... I never fell into that.
I eventually realized that beneath all the eBooks and free reports was the same fundamentals. SEO, PPC, article marketing, niche marketing, SEM, tracking, analytics, testing, landing pages, etc...
I don't like the term Guru, I prefer Mentor... and there are some great people out there, with great blogs, and great free products, and all you need to do is read, filter the hype, and take the leap with passion and precision.
Great post Lynn!
Great comments here. I hear you loud and clear - but I do think its important to keep in mind that we all have a choice. We all choose who we subscribe to, what we read, what we buy, what we do with what we buy, and ultimately - our own success.
In my opinion, it really does boil down to personal responsibility. John Reese is not going to make you rich. Michel Fortin is not going to magically turn you into a great copywriter. Joel Comm is not going to instanteously turn you into the "Top 1%".
But they can certainly teach you a thing or two about those things - both by example, and by what they teach directly.
As for the "boyz club" of IM... the truth is that the majority of their readers are NOT "newbies". They are IM Junkies.
Do you blame the drug? Or do you blame the one addicted to it?
Some will say there is responsibility on both sides. But the only person YOU are in control of... is yourself. The same goes for me. All said and done, its my responsibility to make the choices that I need to make to achieve MY goals. Period.
Hey Lynn great post, for myself I stick to a few key teachers and that's it.
You will have no focus if you don't. Also make sure those teachers are really wanting to help you. 🙂
I can also highly recommend Jimmy D. Brown's 6 figure course, and shut off the noise!
Lynn,
You make some very good points in your last post. It's true it could be looked at as two sided, and both having responsibility.
Yes, it's also true that most of the guru's don't have just the newbie crowd. But some have a lot of them.
And again, absolutely right about Personal choice. I never put my hand in the bear trap when I was first starting out, so I guess I was lucky I figured out fact/fiction early on.
As for the junkies they may or may not know what they are doing when they keep buying product after product.
What I do have a problem with are expensive products geared toward newbies- who are clueless when the first get started.
That being said, it's a two edged sword, both should be held accountable but I believe it's hard for the newer folks to know any better.
Anyways great points Lynn.
Thank you Michael - and I do understand what you are saying. At the same time, I believe there is some psychology behind the decisions people make that negatively affect their chances for success.
The alcoholic knows that he has a problem, for example. Solutions are readily available, but ignored. In life, no matter the issue or addiction, the path most often taken is the path of least resistance.
Success = resistance for the majority.
My point is to turn the focus off of what the "Gurus" are doing "wrong"... and back on what it is we (you, me, everyone) is doing RIGHT in regards to achieving our own goals.
As for high-ticket info products geared towards newbies... the value is there in most of those products. The unfortunate fact is that most people dont take ACTION on what they learn. The price is determined by the marketer. But the VALUE is determined by the end user. Period.
See: http://www.clicknewz.com/1542/perceived-value-the-psychology-of-pricing/
This is an absolutely brilliant and insightful post, a definite read for anyone looking to really understand the nuts and bolts of the internet marketing niche. Great work Lynne, passing it on now!
Maria Reyes-McDavis
Lynn,
I agree 100%. A lot, of people kill their own success before it even starts. One of the biggest problems with people breaking into this type of market is that it's not easy to go from part time to full time or to work a full time job and get into any other type of job for that fact. lol
It's a lot of work, learning curve, time consuming ect. You have to give up some freedom's to make the leap, that's for sure.
Otherwise, I suppose everyone would be doing it if it was a cake walk.
What I am finding is that most newbies want to be told what to do instead of trying to learn. Plus, add the fact that most people are so negative towards what they have the ability to accomplish.
Ultimately, don't get me wrong I think people are to blame for their OWN actions. I certainly don't blame any of the Guru's for anyone else's downfall.
I am also not saying all GURUs are evil. I have a few I really like and think highly of.
So in the end I'd have to agree that we as individuals are to blame for our own success/failure.
Great post Lynn! I think a lot of things are getting shaked up in the IM world. I wonder how things will pan out.
Will it stay the same or will it change?
One thing I will say - is that Social Media has even the playing field out for the average person to go from zero to hero if they utilize to build real, authentic relationships with customers & prospects.
Great stuff!!
I agree on the point about social media, Alejandro 😉 - and thank you Maria!
Very true, Michael. I discussed this in a blog post titled: The Work At Home Dream… Is It Worth The Risk?
And also: “You Are Exactly Where You Want To Beâ€
Interestingly, I have been making these points strongly for going on 2 years now. I am the author of Self-Starters Weekly Tips as you know - not Instant-Starters... 😉 But the point seems to get lost (on the masses) time and again.
Its a small group (true self-starters)... but when everything shakes out, I believe they will be the ones to rise to the top.
That is why IM junkies need to unsubscribe to all those lists who do nothing but promote product after product.
Sure the course might be of value but if you're not making money off one, don't buy the next hyped up launch. You don't need to buy them all.
This business isn't hard but it does require hard work too make a decent living. Emphasis on "decent". Making an extra few hundred buck per month is easy...making a comfortable living requires more elbow grease than what is mentioned in the 10-15K copy the gurus use to part folks from their money.
Maybe there needs to be an IM junkie 12 step program to help these folks out.
IMaholics Anonymous? 😆
Great points, Alan. There is value in everything - from models/examples to free information to products/services/events/etc that you invest money into. But again, the marketer sets the price - the *buyer* sets the value. What you get out of any purchase is directly related to what you put into it. See: http://www.clicknewz.com/1542/perceived-value-the-psychology-of-pricing/
Buyer beware.....A lot of marketers try to tempt their market by talking and focusing a lot on the "rich" lifestyle they are leading...If that works for them then thats fine...
I try to stay away from impulse buying, research the product I am buying and this seems to work for me...And I definitely don't look at high ticket items - mainly because I cant afford it...And my focus is to use the IM techniques but not to market to other IM players but to market outside IM....It is a much much bigger market and more chances of success...
Lynn 🙂 Absolutely. Remember when I was the young newbie? lol
Damn did i read your original post at one point? That about freaks me out 🙂
I came in with a plan and a Mission though. Goal setting and achieving is key. Every bit of success pays off.
Sandy,
Impulse buying can be crazy. I was in marketing offline for 10 years before coming online.
Most of all those Upsells can get you 🙂
Very smart Sandy - its good to be self-disciplined and know what you need, when you need it, and why. Thats where having a clear goal and a laser-sharp focus come in super handy!
Michael - I do remember 😀 You've done incredibly well in a short amount of time. Congrats on that! I still need to interview you for the 2nd Edition of FCS, which hopefully we can schedule sometime soon. I'll be in touch.
There are too many hyped with internet marketing, but if you really want to be succesfully in this industry than the first thing that you need to learn above anything else is marketing.
You need to learn how to market correctly and learn how to generate your own targeted traffic using attraction marketing. What I mean by this is, you need to add value to people lives, you need to be able to give without wanting anything back, this is all about building relationship and branding yourself as a leader without hype but just simply helping people to solve their problem.
When I was a painting contractor, I invested $4,000 for an afternoon -- for a blueprint and information on how to coat the inside of industrial storage tanks efficiently and so that the coatings will last.
Without going into a lot of boring detail, we talked about automation systems, some Rube Goldberg-style spray rigs, safety equipment, etc. The equipment it takes to do the job right is enormously expensive.
The guy next to me got up and left halfway through the workshop because "this is crap" and "this shit'll never work". Some of the rigs WERE a little far-out.
I took what I learned, added it to what I already knew, and made back 20X my investment in 18mos.
The guy who left lost $4,000. There aren't any refunds.
I spent $4K of my hard-earned money to get some information that I knew this guy had. I didn't know how to do what he was teaching. My only attempt before the workshop ended up costing me several thousands of dollars to do over again because the first time wasn't right.
This workshop was promoted basically like what we see now with 'guru' launches. I don't remember seeing anywhere that you had to have more than just basic coatings application knowledge to get anything out of the course. It wasn't for house-painters, or weekend warriors. But the sales material didn't make mention of that.
***********
If I, in the future, have knowledge or have a way of presenting knowledge that I know can help people move to the next level, you can be damned sure I will charge for it. As much as the market will bear.
If the market doesn't agree with my valuation, they won't buy it. Or, they'll buy it and want a refund. Even then, there will be a few that take whatever knowledge I dispense and use it to move themselves and their life forward.
If I can show you how to make $100,000 per year online, is it worth $5,000?
Some people would say "NO!! You're ripping people off!!" and go on about their day looking for the next freebie that will get them rich overnight.
Others will think, "Well, I guess I'll take a chance and see if this will work. I don't trust this guy really, but that $100K pot at the end of the rainbow he's painting sure looks mighty fine." So they pay their money, get the info, and stare at it hoping it will do something. When it doesn't magically turn into bunches of money, they decide "This stuff doesn't work" and they want a refund.
Still others will quietly say, "Hell, yeah...", plunk down their $5K, do the work and make a $95,000 profit.
Who won? And was it worth $5,000?
*******************
The "correction in the industry" is going to be this: that more people who watch will realize that not everyone is going to make it in this business, although the vast majority COULD. The reason the ones who don't make it is not pricing, and it's not crap products. It's lack of commitment, lack of action, and wrong decisions.
No more, no less.
Perfect point. I agree 100%.
It comes back around to accountability to self, and taking personal responsibility - each of us - for our own success. The people that do that are the "Top 1%" that Joel Comm talks about...
I am relatively new to Internet Marketing, (6 months) and am still basically in the information collection phase. As a "newbie" (I still don't like that term) I didn't know a "guru" from a frog, and so had no idea who had good ideas, and who was shooting blanks. Consequently, I jumped into one of the first "sure-fire money making" things I came across ...........with no success. Was that the fault of the guru, the program, me or.........?
I believe in the concept of personal responsibility - the guru didn't 'make' me buy; the program didn't either. I had a choice and I decided to buy. My inexperience caused me serious limitations; not the guru or program, per se.
I believe that if I take full responsibility for what I do, then I am coming from a position of strength.
Thanks, Lynn, for great information without hype and sales pitch. I really enjoy your emails, and they are always read.
Hi Lynn,
Can you hear me clapping from where you are? I have been involved in this "internet" web of mass information overload now for almost five years.
I can say I have been guilty of each purchase hoping that I may learn a new trick or two..but I never got "hooked" on IM as a means of my niche.
There has been over the years some useful information purchased, if you have time to sort through all the hype BS included in some of the e-books, you may find a nugget here or there to help your online business.
I too never understood the notion of promoting a system to promote a system to make a living...I mean if you use every day logic to that example, who would buy a pizza franchise and not sell pizza, but instead would be in the pizza business to sell to others looking to buy a pizza business to NOT sell pizza only to make commission on how many pizza business they sold? NOW tell me that would work in the "real world".???? Of course it wouldn't.
The question is...why does it work online?
There are just a few like yourself I even bother to read, the other emails, I just click through them, see whats going on...then I hit the magic
delete button.
The internet is no different when it comes to success and/or failure than the real world....marketing is marketing inside and out...difference is, take a night course at a local college and learn programing, seo and http from someone who is hired to teach you, rather than someone who is looking to line his pockets for his audience doesn't know any better.
My two cents! Thanks for being who you are Lynn.
Hi Lynn-
You mentioned during your recent webinar that you would like our take on this whole deal. Here is my viewpoint from the consumer side of things on why emotions are rising so high over all this.
First let me say I totally agree that we are each totally responsible for our choices. Whether online or off it has always been each person's responsibility to do their own "due diligence" - We are free to buy something or not, to buy into something or not, we are free to implement the info and see if it works or just let it sit there, but we are not free to escape the consequences of our choices.
And just like it is true that consumers are not free to escape the consequences of their choices, neither can marketers escape the consequences of THEIR choices. If they choose to use certain marketing techniques then the consequences are that consumers are going to have certain reactions (good or bad) - and the Marketers' reputations will either be enhanced or tarnished and eventually they will feel it in their pocketbooks (for good or ill)
But why are consumers getting so upset now? I think it is human nature combined with the times. The economy is on a big downturn and people are hurting, losing houses, jobs etc and if they have jobs they find it hard to pay for the gas in order to get to that job. They are scared and some are turning to the internet in hopes of finding some kind of solution. They are looking to so called experts for fast relief.
They are like skinny hungry cats with one or two fish seeing a group of fat cats sitting on big piles of fish and they are praying they can somehow learn to pile up some fish of their own - the fat cats offer to tell them how if the skinny cats give them their one or two fish. The skinny cats hand over their fish and the fat cats add it to their big piles of fish and then say "See, that's how you do it"
Of course the skinny cat is going to get upset - it is unrealistic to think they would not be upset but hopefully next time the skinny cats will be smarter or it may take a few more fat cats taking their fish for them to learn to scope things out first.
My only thing that I think sometimes when I see some Marketers' behaviour is "How many fish can one cat grab before the whole pile starts to stink!"
just my .02 ~megan
Being an "Internet Marketer" myself, the current status both interests me and concerns me. It helps a lot to hear your thoughts here - because I hear a lot of personal experience behind the words.
Much of the tension is an obvious indication of the market beginning to correct itself. I also believe that the majority of the people in the IM community are at a higher level of knowledge & understanding - while at the same time, the A-listers in the industry are producing less and less quality content/help.
I've been putting a lot of consideration into the future of my own online business too, and so I appreciate your comments from that standpoint as well.
There are still a lot of people out there that need quality information and simple guidance to achieve their eBiz goals. And there are many more that are just getting online and showing an interest in getting started...
Hi Lynn,
I really don't spend too much time reading blogs or reading newsletters from other Internet marketers. I am on a bunch of lists, and have unsubscribed from a lot of them.
But I like yours. I like your style, I suppose. I don't get to read your stuff as often as I'd like but I stumbled over to this thread because it intrigued me.
I downloaded the Internet marketing cure report from your link and read through it.
Overall, I have mixed feelings about Scott's sentiments.
There's some valid points; and some of his points I found to be rather absurd. In the end, though, let's not forget his own report is a marketing pitch for his own services and building his list.
I felt this would be a good thread for me to comment on because for the last 6 years I've been doing strictly affiliate marketing.
I've only recently gotten into the teaching side of it myself on a more serious level having opened a new service, which Allan Gardyne promote it in his last two newsletters.
I did publish a very short lived IM blog, which I remember you commented on once or twice, back in 2004 or so. It was a hobby blog and I let it fold soon thereafter because, well, it was just a hobby and I wasn't doing it to generate an income.
The thing that Scott said most that I agreed with was his simple observation of a "doru"...someone who makes money outside the Internet marketing sphere selling products that have nothing to do with Internet marketing.
Which is what I've done for 6 years until my new service. As Scott mentions about himself, my service is only a tiny fraction of my current income.
Also, even though I did not sign up for John Reese's Internet marketing advisor course, I do see Scott's point against John as being valid.
Namely, I too was a bit shocked when John stated that you don't need to know anything about Internet marketing to get started servicing the hoardes of people who are clamoring to make money online.
But I will reserve judgement. After all, I did not take the course and if I did, maybe I'd have a differnet opinion.
On the other hand, there were a litany of remarks Scott made that I disagreed with, and some of which I found downright irritating.
First, he tries to make a sweeping generalization between gurus and dorus. And, of course, that generalization (which I think is very inaccurate) is that the gurus don't make money selling "actual products" but rather internet marketing products....and his analogy is the pick and shovel sellers of the gold boom days.
So, here are some of my points from the top of my head after reading thru Scott's report:
Point 1) I bet the overwhelming majority of big time Internet marketers (or gurus if we want to use that term), HAVE sold a great many products in other markets outside of internet marketing and do, in fact, know how to make money in markets outside of IM circles.
John Reese obviously did this himself well before teaching.
Point 2) Scott tries to stir up people's emotions (perhaps effective from a marketing angle, but I think disingenuous) that these gurus sell to the IM crowd because such people "are an easy sale" and that "we will readily buy just about anything!" Honestly, I think that's completely wrong. I think it's actually easier to sell a "real product" to a consumer than to sell training/educational material to the IM crowd who are often jaded and very heavily marketed to.
In direct contradiction, later in the report Scott does an about face and acknowledges this by saying "Selling into the Internet markting community comes with a massive amount of resistance...too many marketers have promised too much and under-delivered for too long."
So which is it? Are we an "easy sale" or are we very "resistant" to sale. It can't be both!
Point 3) Internet marketing products are real products. I find it irritating that he tries to portray, say, an Internet marketing course as not a real product, but somehow, say, selling a piece of exercise equipment to someone trying to lose weight is "real." His analogy is also off base. His is likening the internet marketers' products to picks and shovels...and that people who sold the picks and shovels got rich while the suckers got fleeced.
Well, picks and shovels were and are real products and the demand existed for them. Just like Internet marketing products are real and they are being purchased and snapped up because the demand for them exists.
And, if people who sold picks and shovels as a group got richer than people prospecting for gold, well, that was simply a smart business move on their part.
If there are Internet marketing gurus out there that make a fortune on selling their materials then maybe they are the smarter ones than people like me who primarily sell "real products" to consumers.
Lastly, let's not forget that it takes good marketing to sell Internet marketing products even if in theory you sold nothing else. So, these people definitely know what they're doing.
Now, having said all of that, I think if people are getting sick of product launches and a lot of them are unsubscribing from a lot of "guru" newsletters, then that means people are starting to get sick of this type of marketing. People are voting with their actions....and wallets.
Point 4) Scott talks about customer service and gives an example of Eben and Keith picking up the phone and calling him personally.
To be fair, John Reese, who now Scott no longer admires, picked up the phone once and called me personally and was extremely professional and cordial over a matter concerning his Traffic Secrets course which I bought. He gave me his private number at the time (I never bothered him again) but his integrity shone through that one call.
Also, Eben and John are supposedly close friends as well.
But, regardless, I'm not so sure I agree with Scott's comments that "If someone that earns as much as Keith can pick up the phone and talk to me over a $19 dollar ebook then no "guru" has an excuse not to."
In an ideal world, that would be just lovely, but it's completely unrealistic.
Scott does make some good points, in the end, like the possibility of gurus promoting products and services they don't even really use for a quick buck and to remain in the good graces of other "gurus."
Anyway, thanks for this blog post. It's certainly an interesting topic.
Dan Ho
Excellent points Dan - thank you for sharing them here in your comment. I agree of course, and we had the "picks & shovels" discussion on my live webinar yesterday...
The bottom line take-away IMO was "stop following, start DOing"
Personally, I don't have ANY problem with people who sell shovels. Without shovels, the mines wouldn't get dug and no one would ever know if they contained gold or not. Ditto with clothes, supplies...
A naked, starving miner trying to dig a hole with his bare hands would seem to me to be at something of a disadvantage.
"I still need to interview you for the 2nd Edition of FCS, which hopefully we can schedule sometime soon. I’ll be in touch."
Sure, sure, Lynn keep blowing me off 😉 lol j/k
Just let me know when you're ready and we'll get tio it 😉
Truthfully, I don't mind the gurus selling their stuff, or hawking each other. What I do mind, at a certain point, is when they're all jumping on the same bandwagon at the same time, and suddenly I'm getting almost the same exact email from all of them. That was the case with Stompernet, something I decided I didn't want to do last year, and suddenly it's not only back, but I got 9 emails about it, which was interesting because I didn't remember signing up for all those people. I ended up going in and canceling some, and I might trim back a bit more.
A friend of mine said you can't learn from everyone at the same time; at some point you have to pick one and at least try out that person's stuff to see how it fares for you before you move on. And he's absolutely correct.
Love this post! Thanks Lynn (and company) for validating my plan to mass un-sub from about 80% of the lists I'm on.
At first I was afraid I might miss something valuable. But, I see that's nearly impossible - everyone is promoting, selling and teaching the same thing.
I love the fact that Lynn, that you intelligently sift through the bulk of the hype and generously share the nuggets you uncover with the rest of us.
Bless you for your insight.
~Schelli
I agree Mitch 😉
Thank you Schelli. Fortunately between RSS and Twitter, we can keep up with what's coming down the pike rather easily - and with much less clutter in our Inbox.
Thank you, Lynn, for this insightful post, and thanks to all the commenters, too. Seems all I wanted to say has been said, repeatedly, in various forms.
This really struck home - “Take two seconds to guess what percentage of the information you consume on a regular basis is actually contributing to your success.†Most of what comes in my inbox (hundreds daily) is marketing pap - some good, but mostly duplicative. And little ever contributes to my success. Far less than 20%.
It's a distraction that keeps me from action! So in reality, it costs me a lot of money. And it's a "demand" that keeps me from sleep and doing things I need to do for my health. So I have to take responsibility and cut off the tentacles of that monster!
I hate all the cross-promos, being bombarded with the same pitch from everyone at once. That become abusive - even for a good product. It takes my time, sucks it as into a vacuum cleaner. Think about it. If you spend just 3 minutes on each of just 100 of the many emails daily, that's 300 minutes - 5 hours! And you wonder where your productivity went!
Mass unsubscribe is what I was considering already, and to which I am now committed.
Yes, I am uneasy about the potential of not knowing what's going on - I HATE to miss anything! - But there's a solution to the avalanche and "information overload" that IS making me miss something - MY LIFE!
So choose a very few experts to follow - and trust that they are following the rest and will let you know what's going on, what's available that might help with your current situation.
You can't be in everyone's coaching program at once - at least, you can't benefit fully from each and build a business if you try it. Choose. Then act on what you learn. (I'm preaching to myself. Wanting to understand the full spectrum of the IM field for myself, as quickly as possible, I stand guilty as charged.)
Narrow down the blogs you visit, except by referral to something noteworthy. For me, that's Sherman Hu's and Lynn Terry's (and a couple more). Hey, it's Lynn's chosen "job" to follow what's out there and sift through it FOR us, so I choose to accept that wonderful gift - with gratitude.
We love you, Lynn!
Margaret
Thank you Margaret - I do agree that you should pick a few "internet marketers" to follow and stick to that.
Of course, if you work in a different niche altogether - outside of IM - it would pay to follow some of the leaders in your market. You may initially view them as competitors, but there is no better way to keep your pulse on the niche and to learn the market trends/lingo/etc than to follow those already in a leadership role. That includes email publishers, bloggers, forum owners, etc.
Its very easy to get stuck in Internet Marketing when your focus should be on your own market instead...
A little late to the party, Lynn, but some thoughts nonetheless...
John Reese has come into a lot of criticism for saying that internet marketing information (or education, or consulting, etc.) is a good niche.
But, it's true. It's also one of the niches where you can learn, and test, apply stuff, and become extremely useful to a LOT of people in a reasonable amount of time.
Part of the problem is that the critics think of "internet marketing" in terms of the biz-op seekers, Warrior Forum members, and guru groupies.
Which is why one of the "cures" offered is nothing more than a different business opportunity (membership sites).
But that limiting thought behind the attacks on John Reese is simply wrong. Internet marketing is applicable to millions of business owners.
And the truth is, of those millions, 99% of them could benefit tremendously from someone who just reads the damn manual and puts stuff into practice for them.
Heck, a lot of them could benefit from my upcoming product, "Secrets To Using Speel Check."
Thanks Dan - definitely some truth there. And lol on the upcoming project - I'd love to hear more 😉
As I said in the original post, John was simply delivering what his readers wanted most. The point of my post being the "uproar" that accompanies every launch & announcement these days...
I should have commented here a long time ago - and I guess I thought I did after I saw the trackback to http://RickButts.com/ -
I am tempted to comment on the term "guru basher" but before I start I am seeing how rapidly people draw their own conclusions and invent story lines that take on a life of their own.
I don't hang out on the warrior forum (although I'm fascinated with the WSO success some people have had there) but I was not aware of a guru-bashing movement.
My background is in personal development from working with Brian Tracy and Jim Rohn - and I personally have really struggled with the email overload thing.
So my remarks in the articles and posts about the "state of the market" are based on my own personal reaction to the PARADIGM - not at anyone personally.
I've now been accused of hatin' on people who are actually my friends - while they get the traffic!
LOL
It's a silly funny world.
Rick Butts
Perhaps there's some misunderstanding, Rick. See the link above - perhaps we can clear it up 🙂
You asked for Lynn, so here's my own personal opinions and take on the way the internet marketing industry is going. Just my 2 cents if it's worth it.
Do I expect to get everything for free? Of course not - my way of thinking is if I expect everything to be given to me for free - how can I possibly expect others to buy from me. However ...
What happened to the content?
At one time the right way to do things was to publish a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly newsletter including quality articles that actually taught you something. Then it moved down to quick tips (which is fine by me - loose the fluff I don't have time for it anyway). But now, now there's no content at all. No quick tips, no articles - nothing but promotions, advertisements and sales letters. And now it's gotten even worse - if it's not some sort of promotional material - it's the newest jab at a fellow internet marketer?
In the past couple of months I've gotten so angry with myself for all the time I've personally wasted by reading about the latest drama going on. I have no one but myself to blame but myself of course for reading it but dang it guys ... stop the bickering and bring back the content. Please, as a subscriber who's eager to learn and apply and a potential buyer - I beg you.
I'm beginning to think that all the drama, bitterness and anger is nothing more than a bunch of link bait or a new marketing technique. Like these guys are all real friends behind the scenes but all this drama catches and pulls so much attention that I'm beginning to think it's nothing more than a new marketing technique. I mean really ... look at how many times innocent parties get pulled into it all? Just because in the latest jab post, they mentioned someone else's name - even in a good sense. Then the innocent party is forced to make their own post because they didn't want involved in it in the first place? I've seen that happen quite a few times. All that does then is widen the bickering circle and bring on the links.
The reason offering quality content was the right way to do it was because these quick tips and articles showed me, the subscriber and potential buyer, whether or not the publisher knew what he or she was talking about. It gave me a feel for the way this marketer thinks. For Example: Does this marketer believe in making everything automated or does this marketer believe in building by hand? I for one prefer building by hand so therefore, for the most part, I'm not going to buy from someone who prefers to build "automatically".
It's kind of like a guessing game. You buy it and hope it's what you're looking for. Then if you find out it's not what you wanted, you end up keeping it anyway because you don't want to ask for a refund. I know I personally do not like to ask for a refund on a digital product. There's too many people out there that use the system that way - I don't want to look like one of them. Heck, I've only ever once asked for a refund (repeatedly - and never got my money back anyway!)
There are still a few marketers out there that publish quality content on a regular basis - these are the same marketers I continue to stay a subscriber, jump to read the next issue and if I prefer the type of marketer they are, buy their products. Why? Because I feel as though I know this person, I know how he thinks and I know whether or not this guy (or gal) knows what he or she is talking about. For example: And wIth the risk of sounding like a butt-kisser (lol), Lynn you are one of the "good guys" and others that come to the top of my mind right now is Jimmy D. Brown and Alice Seba. Don't get me wrong - I'm sure there's many more out there - it's just that this list is getting smaller and smaller. It's to the point where I don't care to hear from the so-called "gurus" anymore but I'd much rather sign up to a newsletter from a "smaller guy" - because I get so much more quality content from them.
Do I go by recommendations? Sure I do. But, it's the same thing ... I go by the recommendations made by the marketer that I trust, the marketer who has provided me with quality content, the marketer who has allowed me to get to know him/her on a more personal level - but more importantly - on a level that I know what kind of marketer this person is. Again, does he/she know what their talking about? Do they believe in the same kind of marketing techniques as myself? More than likely this marketer is going to recommend someone else that is the same kind of marketer as his or herself.
Okay, it's time to step off my soap box ... but I leave you with this plead one more time.
Drop the drama and bring back the content ...
Great point, Anita. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm guilty of "adding to the drama" with one of my recent posts (as you know), but it was genuinely done in an attempt to clear the air and discuss the issue of the drama itself.
Thanks again - everyone's unique perspective is incredibly helpful in looking at possible solutions.
Yep - and those were one of my examples of someone feeling "pulled into" the whole thing.
In that particular situation - it wasn't just one person "pulled in" but more of a group of people who were bulked into a generalization.
Whether or not it was a direct jab isn't the idea but rather you felt the need to defend yourself as one of the people who were described in the generalization.
That's an example of how my "bickering circle" widens.
And who would blame you? If someone made a comment generalizing wahms who blog ... I'd feel compelled to defend myself as well.
I look forward to the solutions you come up with in your crusade to "fix" the way internet marketing seems to be going.
Darn good article. I'm new to the IM biz, and damn, its a cluttered up mess. Its pathetic, actually. I just want to learn how to develop a product and market it successfully in the WWW.
Jerry
Great points Lynn,
I have been the "victim" of ordering several internet marketing programs when I first started online about 5 years ago. I was so consumed by all of the new information that I spent more time learning some of the same stuff I already knew that I didn't focus on doing what I knew what was best anyway. If that makes sense! Keeping internet marketing simple is the best approach. People just cannot get involved in all of the hype and get rich quick garbage out there. It doesn't happen to most. I have a great friend, Mark Comer, who sold his business imall.com for over 500 million; I just interviewed him; he talks about passion in business and working like a madman to make it. Willing to wake up early and stay up late to make it happen.
Now a days, IM isn't what it used to be. Most information contains nonsense, has a marketing trick behind it or just tries to convince you to buy a product you don't need. What i need is a good, elaborate document which contains information about the steps to a successful Internet biz.